decoding cache auto reset??????????????????????????????????

[halley]

I've never worked as a DJ with Live but
I've prepared a few DJ sets for 'the night after the concerts'
and I never ran into a problem with the decoding cache until now.

I usually
- had my music folder batch processed.
- copied .asd files created in the music folder to the Live Set folder.
- copied original .wav files to the Live Set folder.
- copied converted .wav files (from the decoding cache) to the Live Set folder.

As said before... never had a problem as long as the names of files remain the same:
.asd filename identical to .wav filename (except for the extension of course...).
I have usually done this operation right after the batch decoding
so that all the other operations (checks of the warping, cutting of the songs,
looping of sections, etc, etc) were directly done whenever all the files were already
converted to their final .wav format.

Yesterday
- I took my music folder (on a network drive),
- batch processed it,
- checked that the converted files were in the decoding cache folder (on an internal drive)
- being very tired I decided to postpone their copy
- shutdown the computer.
This morning first thing to do was the copying of all the asd
and .wav converted files to the new Live Set folder...
but all the .wav files in the decoding folder are gone???????????????
WTF is going on? Hours of flac/mp3 to wav conversions and I have to
do it all over again???? Why is that?

The only thing I can think of, that is different from the other times
I've done this operation, is that between the batch conversion and the
actual copying of the converted files the disk where the original files
are located got disconnected from the computer.
But, isn't the decoding cache supposed to retain the files, at least to the point
where they are within the limits of the preferences?
And, quoting from the manual:
---- "Maintenance of the cache is normally not required, as
Live automatically deletes older les to make room for those that are new"
BUT
I've neither decoded nor used any new file before returning to the
decoding cache folder this morning to found it empty (except the .idx).
---- "You can, however,
impose limits on the cache size using the File/Folder Preferences’ Decoding & Web Cache section.
The cache will not grow larger than the Maximum Cache Size setting,
and it will always leave the Minimum Free Space on the hard disk.
Pressing the nearby Cleanup button will delete all files not being used by the current Live Set.
BUT
I have terabytes of free space on my disk so there's absolutely no reason for Live to start worrying about the Minimum free Space to leave.
The maximum cache setting is turned 'Off'.
No one has pressed the Cleanup button.


So again...
Is someone able to explain why the decoding cache is empty!?!?!?
Why did Live 'decided' to clean it up!?!?!?

Is there something I should now? Am I missing something?
Who is going to give me back those wasted hours?



Thanks


------------------------------------------
now, if I try to run the 'Analyze Audio' again on the music folder,
that already contains .asd files, Live starts going through all the files
in the folder but has a strange behavior.
Live seems to create a temporary version of the .wav file in the decoding cache,
but
- the progression bar it's clearly too fast so probably there's no conversion at all
- the .wav files that do get created in the decoding cache alwasy stay at 0 byte so probably even if
the conversion it's actually done there's no writing of the .wav file.

in other words it seems like Live is doing some kind of check of the .asd,
but most important things are that
- no .wav files get_created_'permanently'/remain in the decoding cache anymore.
- every time you drag_and_drop one of these files, that already have a related .asd file, but that don't have a decoded cache file anymore, the time required to load the file is much longer than the time required when the files do have a decoded cache file or when the .asd sits near the .wav file.

Also...
Not only the .wav files do not stay in the decoding cache anymore, but I have to
give ten to twenty times the 'cancel analysis' command to make/force the analysis to stop.
There's clearly something that it's not working as it is supposed to...

Just to know...
If I try on another folder, not containing .asd files, the decoded files remain in the decoding cache.


Again... Am I missing something?
or are there some known/unknown problems with cache/batch_analysis?

Thanks again

[halley]

OK. I have investigated this further...
and it's all related to the network drive as source of the original files.

- connect network drive
- start a batch analysis with the 'analyze audio' command on a folder on the network drive
- you now have:
- all the original files (mp3/flac) on the original folder on the network drive
- all the .asd analysis files still on the original folder on the network drive
- the decoded files in the decoding cache folder (choosen in the file/folder preferences tab)

- disconnect network drive/close Live or close Live/disconnect network drive
(order doesn't matter, even if the drive is disconnected before quitting Live,
Live seems to retain decoded files in cache as long as is still open)

- reopen Live
- all the decoded files related to files on the (now disconnected) network drive are deleted/gone

- strange behaviors occur when trying to start analyzing them again (as explained in previous post, also when trying to stop the analysis)




Why should the decoded cache files get deleted if they are related to a network drive?
Aren't they 'cache' files?
How many people connect/work with many different networks/networked_machines during a day?
If every time that Live opens and doesn't find a network source,
the cache files related to that network source gets deleted...
don't you think some of the reasons of having the cache in the first place are 'missed' here?
Is this the supposed behavior?
Even if I don't think so, because IMHO evidently has some serious issues,
could I please ask an explanation of the reasoning behind this, if there's any?


Thanks again

[jo_paglia]

nothing to do with network drives...
cached files are deleted whenever the source files are not available.

try to move or delete some files you have decoded
that are on a folder on your computer internal hard disk.
their cache files are deleted as well.

[halley]

just realized this while doing some other tests...
Now I get the reasoning behind the deletion
but still it doesn't seem actually a great idea.
What if:
- you just move some files to another folder
- you use networked drives (like lot of us do...)
In these pretty common situation cache file deletion
cannot be based only on the availability of the source files!
The fact that Live, in the specific moment when it is launched,
can't see those files:
- doesn't mean that the files won't be used anymore, they could just have been merged
with other files in some other folders
- doesn't mean that the files aren't still on the same paths, see 'Network Drive',
it's just Live that cannot see those networked drives at the moment.
- does mean only one thing... that the source files aren't in the location they were
at the specific moment of their conversion... and this is actually meaningless.


Even assuming that there's no better way of managing this...
there's no clear explanation in the manual on how the automatic
cleaning of the cache is carried on. all it says is:
"Maintenance of the cache is normally not required, as
Live automatically deletes older files to make room for those that are new."
Files on a temporarily disconnected drive or that have been moved
cannot be defined 'older'.
Also the phrase seems to refer to a First In First Out behavior, that should
be carried on when reached a certain point apparently related to the
'Minimum Free Space'/'Maximum Cache Size' preferences values, but clearly
there are some others criteria.




Also, conversion is linked with the analysis operation so:
- if you ask to batch analyze audio and the audio has already been analyzed
there's no creation of decoded cache files...
- this means that whenever you drag and drop the analyzed files
on a Live Set, it has to recreate the cache .wav files.

The idea of not having a native support of FLAC, OGG, MP3 files
could be annoying but it's ok as long as all the informations required
to use without hassles those formats are crystal clear.
Doesn't seem to be like this about cache management informations.


Does anyone have any comments?

[longjohns]

i just get the feeling that you are using the program incorrectly.

you seem to be saying: you analyze files on a network drive, in order to create a set of .wav files, which you then copy to your internal drive, which you will use for a dj set.

what is intended: you copy the compressed files to your internal, and then just start playing

you should never even look at the decoding cache

i mean it would be ideal if you did not keep moving the files around (1TB for ~$80??)

unless I misunderstand your description.