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 Post subject: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:30 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 10
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi,

I've been struggling with the following problem and can not seem to figure out what's causing it:

1. Take a single MIDI track, add a VST (Sylenth in this case), make a single MIDI loop.
2. Begin recording and change the reverb parameter within Sylenth in Session view (I am using a Novation Remote Zero SL and Automap Template 38 to achieve this and this works as expected).
3. I then stop recording and move to the Arrangement view and play back the newly recorded arrangement (I can view the automation envelopes).
4. The problem is that the automation I have recorded only plays when click the 'Back to arrangement' button in the control bar at the top. The problem is that the 'Back to arrangement' button turns RED immediately/as soon as I begin play back!! Therefore I am forced to press this button to hear the automation - if I do not the automation in the arrangement view becomes translucent and does not play.
When I try to Render this track with the automation the resulting audio definitely does not have any automation!! :evil:

From reading the manual I understand that this 'Back to arrangement' lights up when there is a change from the Arrangement. The point is that when I play back in arrangement I am changing nothing (not modifying parameters or playing other clips).

Please could some one help me sort this out.

Cheers, Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:47 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:07 am
Posts: 77
when you stop the main transport, have you stopped the clip that was playing?

if not then this clip immediately starts playing again when you start the transport, and i think this takes you out of your recorded arrangement.

try stopping the clip before starting the main transport again.

also, how are you "rendering"?

whenever i need to print a mix, i bus the whole thing through a track and record that to disk.


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:58 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 10
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi,

I made sure that all clips were not playing before playing back in Arrangement view i.e. used the 'Stop all clips' button in Session view.

This was the first thing I checked as the 'Back to arrangement' lit up I thought something was playing in session view, unfortunately this wasn't the case.

I'm rendering using the 'Export Audio/video option' in the file menu.
The thing is that even if I were to route the audio of this track to another and record I would still have to press the 'Back to arrangement' immediately to ensure I got the automation to play.
If nothing is playing in the session view then the 'Back to arrangement' should not light up.

Thanks for your help, if you have any other ideas let me know.

Cheers, Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:29 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:56 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Hi Phil,

there are several possible reasons for the Back To Arrangement button to light up, in order to troubleshoot, I would recommend to
- disconnect your connected Midi controllers to ensure it´s not a mapped controller sending out CCs silently
- if that should not help, have a look at the Midi/Sync preferences page. Have you accidentally created a Midi feedback (might happen quite easily if you´re using virtual ports such as IAC or Midi Yoke)? Try to deactivate all Midi ports, can you still reproduce the problem?

Best,
Jörg

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:06 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 10
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi Jörg,

I've run the following tests to figure out what is going on:

1. Opened blank new set and added 3 VSTs (TAL-Bassline, Sylenth & FAW Circle) into 3 MIDI tracks.
2. Then create a single clip for each.
3. I then recorded each clip in session view and modified a couple of parameters to record Automation.
4. I then went into Arrangement view and played the clips back with the automation playing! Importantly the 'Back to Arrangement' button didn't light up!
5. I then rendered each VST arrangement clip and played back - the clips had the automation.
Conclusion: Everything works as expected.

Therefore I went back to my original Live Set and ran the same tests BUT the same track (the track I first found the problem) after recording automation still switched immediately to 'Back to arrangement' on play back! The final thing I tested was to delete the whole track and set the track up again (I imported the same VST and one MIDI clip) and went through the same procedure.
This time when I went to play back the record arrangement clip with Automation it worked!! :)

So my diagnosis is that the clips in that particular track are corrupted in some way i.e. something sending MIDI in the session view that's overriding the arrangement.

In conclusion I have found that the automation is working and that the problem is specific to a particular track within a particular set but still don't know what exactly is the cause.

Does it sound plausible that my clips are corrupted in some way?

Cheers, Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:09 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:56 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Hi Phil,

Quote:
Does it sound plausible that my clips are corrupted in some way?


Not a known issue. Have you tried the suggestions I mentioned in my previous post?

Best,
Jörg

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support@ableton.com


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:46 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 10
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi Jörg,

Apologies for not mentioning the tests you suggested.

1. I unplugged my Novation Remote Zero SL and played the arrangement clip again - the 'Back to arrangement' button lit up immediately. This didn't solve the problem.
2. I went to the MIDI preferences in Live and switched everything off (I also unplugged my controller too) and then played the clip back. The same thing happened as before - Back to arrangement lit up again immediately.

After I performed these tests I then ran the tests I explained in my previous post.

What do you suggest I test next?

Cheers, Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:56 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Hi Phil,

please send a copy of the .als file of the Liveset to support@ableton.com, so we can have a look.

Best,
Jörg

_________________
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support@ableton.com


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:29 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 3
I have the same problem sometimes.I use this trick to get around it:Press record and play,stop imidiatly and go "undo record".now they automations should sound again and can be exportet.


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 Post subject: Re: Automation in arrangement view not being rendered
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:10 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 10
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi,

I tried your suggestion about trying to stop the problem I described but it didn't work.

I sent my problem set to Ableton support over a week ago but have had no feedback/acknowledgement that they looking into it yet.

I did notice one thing last night when trying out your suggestion. I have nothing recorded in the arrangement view but when I begin playing the 'Back to arrangement' button lights up immediately. I decided then to go and delete everything in arrangement (by the way I'm not mad, I was deleting 'nothing' but wondered if there was something I couldn't see).
This didn't help either.

I'm hoping ableton get back to me as this set is pretty important and my band need to start arranging our tunes asap.

Thanks for your suggestion nevertheless.

Cheers, Phil


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