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 Post subject: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:30 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
Hello All,

I've just tried the demo of Live 8 on my new PC running Windows 7 (Specs: i7 920, HD4870, 1.5TB storage, 8GB RAM) and it's running very slowly. I think I had identified the problem being the graphics card.

On Live's default view, it's on 27% utilisation and as soon as something starts playing (just one VST) then utilisation goes right up to 100%. I thought this may be a problem just with Live 8 so I installed the demo version of Live 7 that I had knocking around and again, the same problem- Live becomes horribly slow.

What's interesting is that this also happened when I was using Vista and I have noticed nothing usual at all with regards to RAM and CPU useage (everything seems normal there)

I have the latest drivers for the HD4870 so I'm a little stumped as to what is causing the problem.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:04 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:52 am
Posts: 4
I have a feeling it's something in the interaction between win7 the HD48x0 card and live. I have live 7 on an older laptop with win7 and nvidia graphics and it's fine. On my new machine with a core i7 920, ati hd4850, windows 7rc and live 8 i get the graphical slowness. However I don't get cpu spikes from it. The graphics in Live lag badly but the sound is fine. Also running in vista compat mode and there's no graphical bugs. I'd leave it in vista mode except I unlocked in win7 mode and I'm out of unlocks so I'm leaving it this way since I can (for now) work around it.

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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
bioxeed wrote:
I have a feeling it's something in the interaction between win7 the HD48x0 card and live. I have live 7 on an older laptop with win7 and nvidia graphics and it's fine. On my new machine with a core i7 920, ati hd4850, windows 7rc and live 8 i get the graphical slowness. However I don't get cpu spikes from it. The graphics in Live lag badly but the sound is fine. Also running in vista compat mode and there's no graphical bugs. I'd leave it in vista mode except I unlocked in win7 mode and I'm out of unlocks so I'm leaving it this way since I can (for now) work around it.


Hi there,

Thanks for the reply. I have found the Live .exe and ran it in compatibility mode but I'm stilling getting the slow graphics issue and 100% utilisation.

I'm looking to purchase this when I get to uni but I obviously won't be doing so if I can't get the demo to run!

Thanks again for your help.

Simon


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 419
Location: France
bioxeed wrote:
I have a feeling it's something in the interaction between win7 the HD48x0 card and live. I have live 7 on an older laptop with win7 and nvidia graphics and it's fine. On my new machine with a core i7 920, ati hd4850, windows 7rc and live 8 i get the graphical slowness. However I don't get cpu spikes from it. The graphics in Live lag badly but the sound is fine. Also running in vista compat mode and there's no graphical bugs. I'd leave it in vista mode except I unlocked in win7 mode and I'm out of unlocks so I'm leaving it this way since I can (for now) work around it.


Thanks mate !!! I'm having the EXACT same issue and your workaround solved it. Is there a way we can use the unlock also in vista compatibility mode ? Or do we need to request another key from the abes ? Maybe we should report the bug to microsoft and/or ATI, given that it runs fine in vista compatibility mode ?

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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:39 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
dinaiz wrote:
bioxeed wrote:
I have a feeling it's something in the interaction between win7 the HD48x0 card and live. I have live 7 on an older laptop with win7 and nvidia graphics and it's fine. On my new machine with a core i7 920, ati hd4850, windows 7rc and live 8 i get the graphical slowness. However I don't get cpu spikes from it. The graphics in Live lag badly but the sound is fine. Also running in vista compat mode and there's no graphical bugs. I'd leave it in vista mode except I unlocked in win7 mode and I'm out of unlocks so I'm leaving it this way since I can (for now) work around it.


Thanks mate !!! I'm having the EXACT same issue and your workaround solved it. Is there a way we can use the unlock also in vista compatibility mode ? Or do we need to request another key from the abes ? Maybe we should report the bug to microsoft and/or ATI, given that it runs fine in vista compatibility mode ?


Darn, still isn't working for me!

On a completely random but possible related note, I have noticed that my graphics card seems to be on 100% utilisation all the time in games, even if games that would be considered graphically un-intensive and low action. I'm wondering if the ATI drivers are to blame for this.


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:07 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
Does anyone feel it would be a good idea to install another, really basic, graphics card, just for Live? I could then switch between the two depending on what I'm doing.

Or will two cards cause issues in the system? I'm really keen to get this working ASAP.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 419
Location: France
OK problem solved. I got a nice new licence from the abes, and now I can run Live in Vista compatibility mode and the graphics are faaaaaast ! I love when problems are that simple to solve ;-)

@SimonT : I think you've got a different problem, and/or another problem on top of this one ! Are you sure your sound setup is fine ? Having 100% CPU on a core i7 is NOT normal at all :-)
What's your sound card ? Do you use ASIO drivers ? (if not, try using ASIO4ALL). What's your ASIO buffer size ?

Here are my working settings, maybe it can help :

- ASIO buffer size : 132 samples
- Sample rate : 44100 khz
- Default SR and pitch conversion : normal

And of course don't forget to enable "multiprocessor/multicore" option !!!

And ...keep us posted !!
There's absolutely no reason why live wouldn't work on your config, so don't give up :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 419
Location: France
SimonT wrote:
On a completely random but possible related note, I have noticed that my graphics card seems to be on 100% utilisation all the time in games, even if games that would be considered graphically un-intensive and low action. I'm wondering if the ATI drivers are to blame for this.


by the way, on a random note as well, how can you monitor your graphics card's CPU usage ?

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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
dinaiz wrote:
OK problem solved. I got a nice new licence from the abes, and now I can run Live in Vista compatibility mode and the graphics are faaaaaast ! I love when problems are that simple to solve ;-)

@SimonT : I think you've got a different problem, and/or another problem on top of this one ! Are you sure your sound setup is fine ? Having 100% CPU on a core i7 is NOT normal at all :-)
What's your sound card ? Do you use ASIO drivers ? (if not, try using ASIO4ALL). What's your ASIO buffer size ?

Here are my working settings, maybe it can help :

- ASIO buffer size : 132 samples
- Sample rate : 44100 khz
- Default SR and pitch conversion : normal

And of course don't forget to enable "multiprocessor/multicore" option !!!

And ...keep us posted !!
There's absolutely no reason why live wouldn't work on your config, so don't give up :-)


Hi Dinaiz,

Thanks for the post. The problem isn't with the CPU- that's completely fine. The problem is with the graphics- my graphics card is showing 100% utilisation which is causing a very noticeable slow down of the application (in fact it's a bit of an illusion- the program is running fine but the graphics card is stopping the program refreshing to screen)

From what you were saying, it seems as though the license key is causing the issue....that seems a little odd!

As for my sound set up, I haven't got round to getting a dedicated sound card (boo!) so I'm using the default audio card on the motherboard with the drivers. I'm not convinced the problem is to do with my sound set up.

Cheers

Simon


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
dinaiz wrote:
SimonT wrote:
On a completely random but possible related note, I have noticed that my graphics card seems to be on 100% utilisation all the time in games, even if games that would be considered graphically un-intensive and low action. I'm wondering if the ATI drivers are to blame for this.


by the way, on a random note as well, how can you monitor your graphics card's CPU usage ?


It depends on your graphics card. ATI have their own tool called Catalyst control center which will tell you but, failing that, google GPU-Z and run that- tells you everything about your graphics card inc. fan speed, temperatures and current load. Hope that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 419
Location: France
SimonT wrote:
dinaiz wrote:
OK problem solved. I got a nice new licence from the abes, and now I can run Live in Vista compatibility mode and the graphics are faaaaaast ! I love when problems are that simple to solve ;-)

@SimonT : I think you've got a different problem, and/or another problem on top of this one ! Are you sure your sound setup is fine ? Having 100% CPU on a core i7 is NOT normal at all :-)
What's your sound card ? Do you use ASIO drivers ? (if not, try using ASIO4ALL). What's your ASIO buffer size ?

Here are my working settings, maybe it can help :

- ASIO buffer size : 132 samples
- Sample rate : 44100 khz
- Default SR and pitch conversion : normal

And of course don't forget to enable "multiprocessor/multicore" option !!!

And ...keep us posted !!
There's absolutely no reason why live wouldn't work on your config, so don't give up :-)


Hi Dinaiz,

Thanks for the post. The problem isn't with the CPU- that's completely fine. The problem is with the graphics- my graphics card is showing 100% utilisation which is causing a very noticeable slow down of the application (in fact it's a bit of an illusion- the program is running fine but the graphics card is stopping the program refreshing to screen)

From what you were saying, it seems as though the license key is causing the issue....that seems a little odd!

As for my sound set up, I haven't got round to getting a dedicated sound card (boo!) so I'm using the default audio card on the motherboard with the drivers. I'm not convinced the problem is to do with my sound set up.

Cheers

Simon

OK but on your first post, you say that live indicates 100% usage, and I thinkn this indicator is purely CPU related. If you use your onboard sound, I *REALLY* think you should try ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/). Even if it's not where the problem comes from, at least it's not gonna hurt to try !!!

On what I was saying, the licence key was not the issue ! :-) . I just needed another key to run Live in "Vista Compatibility" mode under Windows 7, but that's not where the performance problem was coming from. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
dinaiz wrote:
SimonT wrote:
dinaiz wrote:
OK problem solved. I got a nice new licence from the abes, and now I can run Live in Vista compatibility mode and the graphics are faaaaaast ! I love when problems are that simple to solve ;-)

@SimonT : I think you've got a different problem, and/or another problem on top of this one ! Are you sure your sound setup is fine ? Having 100% CPU on a core i7 is NOT normal at all :-)
What's your sound card ? Do you use ASIO drivers ? (if not, try using ASIO4ALL). What's your ASIO buffer size ?

Here are my working settings, maybe it can help :

- ASIO buffer size : 132 samples
- Sample rate : 44100 khz
- Default SR and pitch conversion : normal

And of course don't forget to enable "multiprocessor/multicore" option !!!

And ...keep us posted !!
There's absolutely no reason why live wouldn't work on your config, so don't give up :-)


Hi Dinaiz,

Thanks for the post. The problem isn't with the CPU- that's completely fine. The problem is with the graphics- my graphics card is showing 100% utilisation which is causing a very noticeable slow down of the application (in fact it's a bit of an illusion- the program is running fine but the graphics card is stopping the program refreshing to screen)

From what you were saying, it seems as though the license key is causing the issue....that seems a little odd!

As for my sound set up, I haven't got round to getting a dedicated sound card (boo!) so I'm using the default audio card on the motherboard with the drivers. I'm not convinced the problem is to do with my sound set up.

Cheers

Simon

OK but on your first post, you say that live indicates 100% usage, and I thinkn this indicator is purely CPU related. If you use your onboard sound, I *REALLY* think you should try ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/). Even if it's not where the problem comes from, at least it's not gonna hurt to try !!!

On what I was saying, the licence key was not the issue ! :-) . I just needed another key to run Live in "Vista Compatibility" mode under Windows 7, but that's not where the performance problem was coming from. :-)


My first post starts by saying that I think the problem is graphics related and I then go onto talk about the graphics oad, not the CPU. The CPU load is fine within the application.

I did download the ASIO drivers as you suggested but I'm afraid I;m still getting the same result- 100% GPU load and very slow responsiveness from the application.

Thanks for the help so far but I feel I'm back to square one..... :(


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 Post subject: Re: Live very slow (Possible Graphics Issue)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 16
dinaiz wrote:
SimonT wrote:
dinaiz wrote:
OK problem solved. I got a nice new licence from the abes, and now I can run Live in Vista compatibility mode and the graphics are faaaaaast ! I love when problems are that simple to solve ;-)

@SimonT : I think you've got a different problem, and/or another problem on top of this one ! Are you sure your sound setup is fine ? Having 100% CPU on a core i7 is NOT normal at all :-)
What's your sound card ? Do you use ASIO drivers ? (if not, try using ASIO4ALL). What's your ASIO buffer size ?

Here are my working settings, maybe it can help :

- ASIO buffer size : 132 samples
- Sample rate : 44100 khz
- Default SR and pitch conversion : normal

And of course don't forget to enable "multiprocessor/multicore" option !!!

And ...keep us posted !!
There's absolutely no reason why live wouldn't work on your config, so don't give up :-)


Hi Dinaiz,

Thanks for the post. The problem isn't with the CPU- that's completely fine. The problem is with the graphics- my graphics card is showing 100% utilisation which is causing a very noticeable slow down of the application (in fact it's a bit of an illusion- the program is running fine but the graphics card is stopping the program refreshing to screen)

From what you were saying, it seems as though the license key is causing the issue....that seems a little odd!

As for my sound set up, I haven't got round to getting a dedicated sound card (boo!) so I'm using the default audio card on the motherboard with the drivers. I'm not convinced the problem is to do with my sound set up.

Cheers

Simon

OK but on your first post, you say that live indicates 100% usage, and I thinkn this indicator is purely CPU related. If you use your onboard sound, I *REALLY* think you should try ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/). Even if it's not where the problem comes from, at least it's not gonna hurt to try !!!

On what I was saying, the licence key was not the issue ! :-) . I just needed another key to run Live in "Vista Compatibility" mode under Windows 7, but that's not where the performance problem was coming from. :-)




I think you have solved the problem for me! This is what I have gathered...

1) Default audio drivers in Windows 7 with an ATI HD4870 cause the graphics card to load at 100%

2) Installing ASIO and running Ableton in 'native' Windows 7 mode causes the same issue- 100% GPU load

3) However....if you set the drivers to ASIO and then run the application in compatibility mode for Vista than voila! No GPU load at all and the application is perfectly responsive!

Thank you so much for the help. I'm still stumped as to how the audio drivers are interfering with the graphics card!!


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