So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

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niQ7
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:37 am

So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by niQ7 » Fri May 28, 2010 8:46 pm

Hey everyone, I recently converted to ableton, It was a bit tricky at first and I'm still learning, but for the most part I love the the freshness it brings to my work flow, however there are a few problems I need worked out that are keeping me from making the 100% switch.

I'll try to make it as quick and informative as I can

I use samples quite frequently in my music and what I want to do is to put them on drum rack and be able to pitch the sample(up or down a few semitones) "WITHOUT" it changing the tempo at which the sample is played.

I tried linking the simpler's transpose nob to it but no luck the higher its pitched the faster the sample is played back. I also tried the midi pitch effect which also failed to only pitch shift it.

I asked some of my friends who are long time Ableton users, also searched Google and The entire forum here and from what I read and from what everyone tells me. It just can't be done. Every other DAW or hardware sampler I've ever used can do this its almost a given to have this capability in a sampler, yet is Ableton really not able to do it?

I know that when warping is on in the sample editor it allows you to do this. However, some of us prefer a more creative on the spot approach for playing out ideas freely on pads or keys, not clicking and splitting with a mouse.

Hope there is someone that can help me I've been exhausting sources about this for close to a week now, Any information is greatly appreciated.

kleine
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by kleine » Fri May 28, 2010 9:50 pm

You can use Live (or parts or Live) as a sampler itself - if you start to see Clips as pads.
You can easily MIDI map audio Clips and trigger/play them, even with velocity. This way you have a lot of
functionality.
The Drumrack is a different type, developed for different tasks.

Best,
Christian

niQ7
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:37 am

Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by niQ7 » Fri May 28, 2010 11:06 pm

thanks for the quick reply kleine

However that would be anything but easy as you put it... I understand what your saying and actually this method was one of the first work a rounds that i was experimenting with for past few days, however its all about work flow for me and this way is nothing less than time consuming and some what problematic when you want to get your ideas out in the moment.

any other suggestions or work a rounds?

longjohns
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by longjohns » Sat May 29, 2010 4:39 am

i think you maybe misunderstand kleine's suggestion? because it is very easy and allows exactly what you ask for = "playing out ideas freely on pads or keys"

on any clip slot, enter midi map mode. hit the root key and hold, then low key and high keys (eventually holding 3 keys simultaneously)

then you can pitch the clip with that note range

?

wayfinder
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by wayfinder » Sat May 29, 2010 6:14 am

I don't understand this. It sounds interesting, but I can't seem to get it to work and actually do anything.

niQ7
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:37 am

Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by niQ7 » Sat May 29, 2010 6:16 am

Thanks for the reply Longjohns

but no that's not what I'm looking for either.(all that does is pitch the sample on the selected clip down or up the range you selected, not even remotely close to what I am trying to do)

Ok, here is an example

I count out and select a 4 bar loop (16 beats) in the sample editor, I want to be able to have some kind of sampler where i can drop this loop in and set it to chop to to every 1/4 note which would chop it into the 16 beats and lay it across my 16 pads on my controller (machine, mpd32, or my trigger) giving me one beat per pad.(drum racks, slice to new midi track is perfect up until this point)


Once they are in the sampler it should have the capability to pitch shift the sample up or down with out altering the timing/duration of the sample. This is wear drum racks falls short for me, you can set macros to transpose with simpler or pitch effect but it will alter the duration of the sample in drum racks which makes it useless for what I need.

This is the most basic of basic applications for every sampler I've ever used be it hardware or a DAW. I'm working frantically to find a work around in ableton I don't need something that would follow that exact same process, I don't expect ableton to spoon feed me nor am i too stubborn to alter my work flow here and there, but I don't think its too much to ask for a way that is as efficient. Sure I could do it the clips way as suggested I've been seeing how fast and effectively i can apply it all day as a matter of fact. However coming from a MPC background I find it some what ridiculous when I can do the above process in less than 30 seconds on any MPC as well as some other samplers :|

Ableton has a lot to offer and has given me a new prospective on how to actually make music, it's a breath of fresh air in many ways so to speak, It's really makes it fun like no other DAW I've come across. However when it comes to this it seems to fall short big time. I've searched the forums thoroughly i know this functionality has been in request for a while now as I've read threads dating back to 06

Hopefully my experimenting will result in a really efficient method for this,

Thanks for the quick reply guys
really appreciate the info

wayfinder
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by wayfinder » Sat May 29, 2010 6:31 am

If you have sampler, I think you can set up drum racks to use sampler instead of simpler, it can do what you want afaik

niQ7
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by niQ7 » Sat May 29, 2010 6:54 am

wayfinder wrote:If you have sampler, I think you can set up drum racks to use sampler instead of simpler, it can do what you want afaik
Thanks for the reply wayfinder i do have it and yea I opened it briefly a few times in the past to see if it could work with drum racks honestly i don't remember what my conclusion was :? thanks for the heads up I'll check it out and report back with my findings

longjohns
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by longjohns » Sun May 30, 2010 4:03 am

niQ7 wrote: This is the most basic of basic applications for every sampler I've ever used be it hardware or a DAW.
well i guess i show my age (?) but i've never had a hardware sampler that could do this :lol: i only used sp-12/00, eps/asr, emax, mpc3000...

no timestretch in sampler either.

mp3
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by mp3 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:05 pm

You got several ways to accomplish what you want.

You could:
1. take the sample from within the drum rack and crop it (right click on the waveform display and select crop sample),
2. use the manage samples function to send it out to an external sample editor (right click on the waveform display and select manage, thenclick the edit button in the manage samples pane),
3. timestretch/pitchshift it in the sample editor, save and close, then unselect the Edit button in the manage sample pane (which will automatically send the timestretched/pitchshifted sample back into the drumrack).

You could:
1. Record the sample into a new clip (which allows you to print all the effects/settings from the drumrack),
2. use Live's warping features to timestretch and/or the Transpose knob in the Clip Settings to pitchshift the sample,
3. freeze the sample, then
4. drag it back into the drumrack.

You could:
1. Crop the sample,
2. drag the sample out to a clip slot,
3. use Live's warping features to timestretch and/or the Transpose knob in the Clip Settings to pitchshift the sample
4. freeze the sample, then
5. drag it back into the drumrack.

You could:
1. Make copies of the original clip,
2. timestretch/pitchshift the copies as desired, using Live's warping features to timestretch and/or the Transpose knob in the Clip Settings to pitchshift the sample.
3. freeze the copies,
4. slice the copies,
5. select which versions of each pitchshifted/timestretched sample chop to use.

There are also several other permutations of the same ideas that you could try. From a workflow perspective, none of them should be any slower than using an MPC to do the same thing. I own an MPC 1k with JJ, and pretty much everything I can think of to do with a sample, I can do it faster in Live (not slighting the MPC at all, because it still inspires me differently). I also have an ASR 10, which the main reason I keep that is because there are things it can do with a sample that no other piece of hardware or software, including Live, can do.

wayfinder
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by wayfinder » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:33 am

None of these work dynamically, do they?

EX
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by EX » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:33 am

Don't do much of this but I tried it just now and see what you're saying. Yeah auto-timestretching functionality would be sweet, clearly it aint there. A worthy contribution to Feature Wishlist corner, methinks

oddstep
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Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by oddstep » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:43 am

I do timestretching in sampler. Do a forum search on it. Its dynamic

EX
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:55 pm

Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by EX » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:53 am

It can automatically timestretch from within Drum Rack when you change pitch without manually having to do anything else..?

EX
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:55 pm

Re: So, is ableton really still not able to do this?

Post by EX » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:02 am

I'm betting all the people in this thread ( http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5&start=30 ) would yearn to know such a special secret!! (Me too.) :wink:

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