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 Post subject: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:14 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 20
Hi Ableton team i have a problem,, after updating live (yesterday) from 8.1.3 to 8.1.4, i am unable to record automation using novation nocturn in ableton, the sounds are affected by the Nocturn but there is no automation being applied or recording in ableton tracks. i uninstalled live 8.1.4 and reinstalled 8.1.3 and everything seems to be ok. apart from massive vsti refused to be recognised as an automap plugin. i am guessing this is a bug, recording automation in 8.1.4?
i would like to use 8.1.4 as it seems more stable that 8.1.3 .

i hope this gets fixed
thank you

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:24 am
Posts: 938
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Just did a quick test and midi recording seems to work just fine.
Does it only happen with Automap?
Can you send us a step by step description for us to reproduce the problem and tell us what kind of system you're using?

Thanks,
Dom

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 20
Hi Dom, i have only tried recording automation in ableton with the nocturn in 8.1.4 due to the ease of changing parameters,which worked great in 8.1.3 until updating to 8.1.4,i havent tried recording automation manually in 8.1.4 as of yet.
In 8.1.4 the novation nocturn works, the sounds changes in realtime with the controller, but there's no automation change when recorded in ableton track armed .its looks like theres no midi signal being sent to ableton from the nocturn.

I read on the change log for 8.1.4

- Live now ignores invalid MIDI data (for example, MIDI CC values that don't exist.)
i'm not sure if ableton sees the midi being transmitted as invalid Midi CC values

I usually start a new project or load an existing project.
load a vsti instrument into an empty midi slot
load up the GUI of the instrument
click view on the nocturn which brings up automap
assign automated parameters in automap which i'd like to automate for the vsti
when i'm ready to record automation in live, i click configure on the instrument which is located at the bottom of the sequencer screen + where it lists the instrument+ fx u have in a chain,choose what parameters i'd like to record, arm the record button on the track an click on record at the top of the screen on the transport bar ...an then automate the parameters with nocturn

Ive uninstalled 8.1.4 an reinstalled 8.1.3 an there appears to be no problem now.


thanks Dom

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:11 am
Posts: 20
Hi Dom, its appears to only happen when using Noturn + Automap 3.5 in 8.1.4
Ive posted by specs below.

Kind Regards

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
Hi


I'm having a similar problem live 8.2.1

I can move automation with Nocturn but i cant record it. I got Live 8 today :)

How can i record Automation from the nocturn?

I also have launchpad so I got Automap Pro

Can you help?

also while i was trying to automate it crashed a few times, i sent the report in.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
I only managed to record automation if i:

clicked the configure button
add the knobs a want to control
AND have the gui of the thing I'm controlling visible

Surely this cant be right?

I hope I haven't made a mistake buying Ableton Live

Any input welcome

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:31 pm
Posts: 1775
Location: Ableton
Do you have global record enabled? As long as you have the knobs mapped and global record is enabled, you can record automation.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
Hi

Thanks for getting back to me

I only managed to record automation if i:

clicked the configure button
add the knobs a want to control
AND have the gui of the thing I'm controlling visible

Can i control something that whee the GUI is not visible?

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The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:31 pm
Posts: 1775
Location: Ableton
Can you explain to me more about the issue that you're having? Is your issues in configuring the plug-in to get the parameters that you want?


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
Hi

Thanks for getting back to me

I have Automapped plugins (I used Cubase before)

add audio file (drum loop)
add filter plugin (automap)

move nocturn - filter changes sound
global record
configure

nocturn always changes sound
but
automation only records/configure siders only move
if
the gui for the filter plugin is visible

but all the time i can hear the filter plugin changing sound using Nocturn
Automap - displays the filter as being the controlled vst.

So

I can only record Automapped automation after
Global Record
Configure
and GUI visible
even though Norturn and automap are changing the sound
GUI needs to be visible to record the automation?

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The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:31 pm
Posts: 1775
Location: Ableton
The visibility of the GUI of a plug-in has nothing to do with whether automation is recorded in Arrangement View. A few questions:

1) Do you have "back to Arrangement" selected before recording?

2) Have you tried connection the Nocturn to Ableton without using Automap, and without making it a control surface?

3) What version of Automap are you using?

4) Do you have Configure selected for the filter while you're recording? Configure simply lets you make the Ableton gui with the controls that you'd like to have available. You should turn off the "Configure" button when you're done mapping, and before recording automation.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
Hi David Abravanel

Thanks for getting back to me.



David Abravanel wrote:

The visibility of the GUI of a plug-in has nothing to do with whether automation is recorded in Arrangement View. A few questions:


I have to disagree,
see how the fader has not moved,
when the gui is not visible.
it snaps back after the GUI is visible, when i move the controller.
although ableton has not changed, the fader and sound have changed on the actual plugin.
same on all plugins i have

Image


David Abravanel wrote:

1) Do you have "back to Arrangement" selected before recording?


this is not selected, the problem happens even before recording.

David Abravanel wrote:

2) Have you tried connection the Nocturn to Ableton without using Automap, and without making it a control surface?


Nocturn does not work without Automap, but if you mean useing MIDI mode on the nocturn. Which slightly defeats the idea of automap. yes all normal midi controllers i have work wit or without the GUI showing.

David Abravanel wrote:


3) What version of Automap are you using?


Automap PRO latest version

David Abravanel wrote:


4) Do you have Configure selected for the filter while you're recording? Configure simply lets you make the Ableton gui with the controls that you'd like to have available. You should turn off the "Configure" button when you're done mapping, and before recording automation.


yes configure has been configured and turned off



Any Ideas?

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The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
also if you are recording automation and shut the GUI, sound still changes but automation that has been moved is then flatlined.

if I change the track, --and this action closes the GUI (rather than the close GUI button) the automamation works correctly. its only if i use the close GUI button?

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 274
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9789/automapandlive1.gif
In the first example.

EFFECTRIX (this behaviour is common)

Effectrix :visible
I move the Nocturn
Nocturn GUI moves
Effectrix knob moves
Configure moves
Automation writes

Effectrix not visible
Nocturn moves
Effectrix knob moves
Configure --does not move--
Automation --does not write-- it flat lines


Second Example

Side kick 4

GUI visible
I move the Nocturn
Nocturn GUI moves
sidekick knob moves
Configure moves
Automation writes

sidekick 4 not visible
Nocturn moves
sidekick knob moves
Configure --does move--
Automation --does write :)

Live 8.2.1
PC XP
Automap PRO latest version


Also Its worth noting that changing track to close the plug GUI does not stop the automation writing??

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"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.


Last edited by RD444 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:31 pm
Posts: 1775
Location: Ableton
As to stopping the automation from writing, you'll need to have global record off and have the track disarmed to make sure that you aren't recording over automation.

One workaround for the issue that you might try is to disable Automap and just connect the Nocturn directly to Live - have you tried this?

In the mean time, you should contact Ableton Technical Support about the issues that you are having: http://www.ableton.com/support. Please include a link to this thread, and the information that you have included here.


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