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Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:05 pm
by shaunsteffan
Hey RD, good on ya. peace

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:49 pm
by RD444
Hi shaunsteffan

Ableton support are responding to my questions. I have tried earlier version of Automap (same issues) but not earlier versions of Live.

This is the issue that i have:
  • That the automation and live settings are not altered if the plugin GUI is turned off.
  • but does work if you turn the plugin off by changing tracks.
  • Automap controls the plugin at all times
  • but with the GUI of the plug 'closed', LIVE doesn't see its automation state

Can you confirm these 2 things

  • 1 Can you confirm that this is the same issue you are having? (above)
  • 2 and that it was not an issue in previous versions of live?


I tried previous automap and the issue is still there

Can you confirm the 2 questions and i can follow this up with ableton

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:43 am
by shaunsteffan
Hi RD, 1) Automap 3.4.1 + 3.5 work perfectly in previous versions of ableton 8.1.3 an below . it does not function correctly on 8.1.4 an above. 2) i am not able to record automation in ableton, it does not matter if the GUI of the plugin is opened or closed from versions 8.1.4 an above automation stays flatlined . 3) i am able to change the sound in realtime using the nocturn and thats about it,pretty pointless if it doesnt record the change . Ive emailed Novation again ..they have said to update ableton to the latest version and to install the automap beta 3.7.1b .If i find a solution or hear any more i will post on here .

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:30 pm
by RD444
I have had quite a bit of communication with Ableton on this. (I can post the full transcript of the conversation if you like)

Live have said this
i'm afraid i can only confirm that we did not change anything in Live regarding this behavior and the changes are only made by the new version of Automap.

Best,
Dom Wilms
Ableton Technical Support

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:48 pm
by shaunsteffan
I am sorry RD but i dont think this is an Automap problem as 3.4.1. & 3.5 work perfectly on the version of live i am using which is 8.1.3. i have 8.1.4 up to 8.2 which i have tried with automap but this is where the problem lies it just doesnt work. Automap havent changed anything, live have!. as automap works perfectly in 8.1.3. an refuses to work in 8.1.4 this is clearly a live problem. I think Live cant be bothered fixing it as they are so many other bugs to be fixed. If it was an automap problem they would have fixed it in the following updates an betas + at least they are trying to.

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
by RD444
I'm inclined to agree with you

We have slightly different problems, but very similar.

I could try an earlier version of live as a test to see if my problem exists there?

But i gotta change down a gear on this problem because the support isn't there.

I'll post back if i run a test

I feel my problem is a slight inconvenience, but your renders automap useless. I'd like to get to the bottom of it for both of us bro.

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:26 am
by RD444
live 8.1.3
automap pro 3.5

different behaviour

firstly the configure doesn't work with automap turning it
i have to turn the actual plugin control for configure to recognise it

it works with the plug GUI closed for a short time, then doesn't until i open the plug again, then it works.??

I conclude, that something is different

Image

its a clue but doesn't help either of us.

"its about writing music"
I can do a work around
I'm not sure what you can do, but just write music man, F this silly business, you are the music not the machine, you know like the WHO smashing their guitars. :twisted:

just write some phat tunes and this wont even seem relevant. :)

I don't know what to say :(

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:39 am
by shaunsteffan
Hey RD, try automap 3.5 the standard edition or even 3.4.1 it will work with 8.1.3. when using automap, click learn on the nocturn, move the knob on the GUI of the plugin you would like to control with the mouse an then move the knob on the nocturn you would like to use. some plugins are not supported even though u can create automap versions of the plugin (the version of dll that is listed in the vst folder that automap uses. dont forget to turn of learn after mapping the first knob! u can map the knob of the gui to all of the controls on automap accidentally sometimes. i hope it works man its a shame having a nocturn an not being able to use it properly, let me know how u get on ...cause it should work. peace

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:04 pm
by shaunsteffan
Ne luck getting ableton to work with the official released update of Automap 3.7

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:20 pm
by RD444
http://www.kvraudio.com/news/novation_u ... ap_to_v3_7

3.7 is out

I got this today.

If you are in the uk you could try ringing novation.

I wish I knew more.

Have your put you exact problem to ableton?

I'm just kinda leaving it for now. Sorry for bailing on this.

If you get a result post back

But you need to get help from these companies to get your set up working again.

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:02 am
by w1nt3rmut3
I can confirm the above problems, exactly as described by RD444, and I can also confirm that on my machine they persist with Live 8.2.1 and Automap 3.7, and that Live 8.1.3 works perfectly with Automap 3.7. This is definitely a problem with Live, not Automap! Or, at the very least, it is an emergent problem between Live and Automap that has synergystically arisen as a result of changes made in Live, not Automap! :lol:

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:42 am
by RD444
w1nt3rmut3 wrote:I can confirm the above problems, exactly as described by RD444, and I can also confirm that on my machine they persist with Live 8.2.1 and Automap 3.7, and that Live 8.1.3 works perfectly with Automap 3.7. This is definitely a problem with Live, not Automap! Or, at the very least, it is an emergent problem between Live and Automap that has synergystically arisen as a result of changes made in Live, not Automap! :lol:
Thanks for running some tests

I cant seem to get anywhere with this.

I have spoke to Ableton Support on Numerous occasions

I can post the transcript of our conversations

I have contacted them again today

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:32 pm
by w1nt3rmut3
For me, the main part of the problem is not recording automation with the GUI open or closed, it is that the recording of the automation is choppy and imprecise (and thus effectively worthless). I say "part of the problem" because this issue seems to be tied to the GUI issue - that is, it only appears when using Automap with Live versions 8.1.4 and higher. When recording automation using Automap with 8.1.3, the automation is recorded properly: smoothly and accurately.

Can anyone else confirm that they are also observing this "choppy" recording of automation with Automap and Live 8.1.4+ ? It does not seem to matter if I use Automap 3.5 or 3.7 in any case.

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:39 pm
by w1nt3rmut3
Maybe I should clarify what I mean by "choppy". I mean that when you are recording Automap automation, and you turn a knob in a smooth, regular fashion, in Live 8.1.4 or higher you will observe that the recorded automation has a series of rough plateaus rather than a smooth curve. And, of course, this affects the sound during playback of the phrase containing the automation, making the played-back sound unlike the sound that was played during the recording process (as you can hear the automated parameter "jumping" from one plateau to the next).

Please note that I am well aware that if you "zoom in" far enough, automation will always appear as a series of plateaus, but that is not what I'm talking about! The plateaus I am talking about are very large, and visible to the eye when examining the automated parameter line without zooming in at all. They also produce very noticeable "jumps" that are easy to hear.

Re: 8.1.4 + Novation Nocturn Automation Problems

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:01 am
by w1nt3rmut3
Am I really alone in experiencing this "choppy" automation? It only occurs when the vst being controlled is processing - that is, when the VST is turned "on". I can record automation from any parameter with the VST being controlled by my Nocturn turned off very smoothly and precisely, with lots of interpolation points. So it seems like it must have something to do with processing, I think?

Edit: I just discovered that this issue only seems to appear when I am using my Firebox as the audio device. When I use my built-in sound device with Asio4All, then I do not get the "choppy" automation. However, back at Live 8.1.3, I could still use the Firebox, and I had no "choppy" automation at all.

I probably sound totally crazy if no one else has this problem, but just in case anyone else experiences it (if there is anyone out there who happens to have the Live 8.2 + Automap + Firebox combination), you are not alone! :D