sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

JohnnyVenom · Post by **JohnnyVenom** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:34 pm

So I have been trying to figure this out on my own for several days now and cannot make it work, nor have i seen this problem on the forums here...

My question is: How can I send multi channel MIDI messages to a plug-in on one MIDI Track in Live?

Here is my problem, illustrated in 2 slightly different scenarios (but working essentially the same way, or not working, as the case may be):

#1: I am using NI Kontakt 4 as a VST plug-in on a MIDI track in Live. I have 2 keyboards running to Live, one on MIDI Ch1, one on MIDI Ch2. The track is armed and receiving MIDI from 'All Ins' and 'All Channels'. I have confirmed that my keyboards are set up properly, and Keyboard 1 (on Ch1) is transmitting signal on Ch1, and same w keyboard 2. In Kontakt, I am using the Vintage Organs Library and have one instrument loaded, a B3. In Kontact the MIDI channel is set to OMNI, meaning it is receiving MIDI on all channels, and I have set the Upper Manual to receive MIDI on Ch1 and the Lower Manual to receive MIDI on Ch2, so I can use both keyboards to play both manuals. However, no matter what channels my keyboards are set to, Kontakt only is receiving MIDI on channel 1. That is: signals that i am sending from all MIDI channels 1-16 from my keyboards are being sent to Kontact only on channel 1. Therefore, in my organ example here, I am unable to play both manuals simultaneously, only the upper manual that is set to ch 1.

Ex #2: Similarly, I am using Kontakt as a plug-in on another MIDI track in Live, this time with 2 different instruments loaded in Kontact, one set to receive MIDI on Ch1, the other on Ch2, so that I can play them separately with my 2 separate keyboards on the same Live track, however, the same thing happens, MIDI is reaching Kontakt all combined together on MIDI Ch1, so both keyboards are only playing the first instrument.

Is what I am trying to achieve possible within Ableton? Is there some other setting that I am missing? Do I need to assign another port somewhere? I have worked with Kontakt in stand-alone mode and the MIDI assignments work properly, so I believe the issue is in the internal routing in Live. I know the easiest workaround is to just assign separate instruments to individual Live tracks, but that seems like a colossal waste of CPU, not to mention how confusing it gets in the example of instruments with 2 manuals (organs), where some controls are global for the whole instrument (swell pedal, precessions, etc.) and some are specific to the manual (drawbars & vibrato).

My setup is:
MBP 2.5GHz 4GB RAM
OS 10.6.6
Live 8.2.2b1
Novation 61SL mkII
Additional MIDI keyboard (thru Midisport 1x1)
APC40
etc, etc, etc....

Any help is most welcome.
Thanks and cheers,
Johnny Venom

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:53 pm

Try this.
- Make three new MIDI tracks
- Track 1 contains Kontakt 4 and no other settings need to be changed on that track
In Kontakt 4 add two instruments
- Instrument #1 Midi Ch: [A] 1 (Port A from host... then choose 1 from the dropdown menu)
- Instrument #2 Midi Ch: [A] 2 (Port A from host... then choose 2 from the dropdown menu)

- Track 2 set to
MIDI From: your first Keyboard
Monitor: IN (so you don't have to keep arming that track to get MIDI into it)
MIDI To: 1-Kontakt 4 / 1-Kontakt 4This will make keyboard 1 control instrument one in Kontakt

- Track 3 set to
MIDI From: your second Keyboard
Monitor: IN (so you don't have to keep arming that track to get MIDI into it)
MIDI To: 1-Kontakt 4 / 2-Kontakt 4This will make keyboard 2 control instrument 2 in Kontakt

So basically, you put Kontakt in one track and have other tracks in Live send their MIDI to that track.

JohnnyVenom · Post by **JohnnyVenom** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:28 am

Word. Thanks dentaku for the help, but unfortunately still not able to make it work. I followed the above steps exactly - and the result was that keyboard 1 (assigned to midi ch 1 on Port A in Kontakt) worked correctly, sending signal to Kontakt instrument 1, and keyboard 2 (ass. to midi ch 2 on Port A in Kontakt) sent signal to Kontakt Instrument 1 AND 2. I checked and recheched my inputs and outputs both in Live and Kontact and they are definitely set up correctly, but this was a most unexpected result. I experimented with sending through to other channels besides just 1 and 2, but results were similar and I was still unable to truly separate the keyboards to the individual instruments.... Am I missing something? Or is this a bug? Im fairly new to Kontakt, and not fully versed on the multiple ports (A thru D i think) - is there something in the setup that I need to tweak? I would think that this would be a pretty common usage in Live - anyone else have any approaches or success setting up similar systems?

And, assuming that I am still making some minor error that is keeping me from running it properly, how would I address working with the NI Vintage Organs Library where 1 individual instrument in Kontakt needs separate midi channels running to each individual manual?

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:15 am

I just tried my own instructions and the same thing happened. The track sending out to 1-Kontakt 4 did what I expected but the other track sending to 2-Kontakt 4 played both instruments at the same time.
I don't know enough about kontakt 4 I guess

JohnnyVenom wrote:Word. Thanks dentaku for the help, but unfortunately still not able to make it work. I followed the above steps exactly - and the result was that keyboard 1 (assigned to midi ch 1 on Port A in Kontakt) worked correctly, sending signal to Kontakt instrument 1, and keyboard 2 (ass. to midi ch 2 on Port A in Kontakt) sent signal to Kontakt Instrument 1 AND 2. I checked and recheched my inputs and outputs both in Live and Kontact and they are definitely set up correctly, but this was a most unexpected result. I experimented with sending through to other channels besides just 1 and 2, but results were similar and I was still unable to truly separate the keyboards to the individual instruments.... Am I missing something? Or is this a bug? Im fairly new to Kontakt, and not fully versed on the multiple ports (A thru D i think) - is there something in the setup that I need to tweak? I would think that this would be a pretty common usage in Live - anyone else have any approaches or success setting up similar systems?

And, assuming that I am still making some minor error that is keeping me from running it properly, how would I address working with the NI Vintage Organs Library where 1 individual instrument in Kontakt needs separate midi channels running to each individual manual?

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:28 am

AHA! I think I may have figured it out.

I set Track #1 (the one with Kontakt in it) to MONITOR OFF and it works as I expected.

JohnnyVenom wrote:Word. Thanks dentaku for the help, but unfortunately still not able to make it work. I followed the above steps exactly - and the result was that keyboard 1 (assigned to midi ch 1 on Port A in Kontakt) worked correctly, sending signal to Kontakt instrument 1, and keyboard 2 (ass. to midi ch 2 on Port A in Kontakt) sent signal to Kontakt Instrument 1 AND 2. I checked and recheched my inputs and outputs both in Live and Kontact and they are definitely set up correctly, but this was a most unexpected result. I experimented with sending through to other channels besides just 1 and 2, but results were similar and I was still unable to truly separate the keyboards to the individual instruments.... Am I missing something? Or is this a bug? Im fairly new to Kontakt, and not fully versed on the multiple ports (A thru D i think) - is there something in the setup that I need to tweak? I would think that this would be a pretty common usage in Live - anyone else have any approaches or success setting up similar systems?

And, assuming that I am still making some minor error that is keeping me from running it properly, how would I address working with the NI Vintage Organs Library where 1 individual instrument in Kontakt needs separate midi channels running to each individual manual?

JohnnyVenom · Post by **JohnnyVenom** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:43 pm

cool. im out of town till tuesday but i'll try it when i get back. thanks for the help!

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:16 pm

I'm curious to know if you've tried it yet.

JohnnyVenom wrote:cool. im out of town till tuesday but i'll try it when i get back. thanks for the help!

JohnnyVenom · Post by **JohnnyVenom** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:44 pm

just got back home yesterday so i just tried it out now. works perfectly. the organ too (multi midi ch's into one kontakt instrument...) this is huge. thanks for the help!

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:51 am

Great. The most important thing was making sure the track with Kontakt in it set to OFF which is logical now that I figured it out but it's not one of those things that obvious right away when you're setting up something that's already this complicated.

JohnnyVenom wrote:just got back home yesterday so i just tried it out now. works perfectly. the organ too (multi midi ch's into one kontakt instrument...) this is huge. thanks for the help!

sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins

Re: sending multiple midi channels to plug-ins