Latency issues in 8.2.1

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Badger123
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Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by Badger123 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:41 pm

In Live 8.2.1, when I use the driver error compensation set to observe the delay I find that adjusting the Buffer Size changes the positioning of recorded audio. It never used to work like this.

I tried using the driver error compensation set in 8.2 and adjusting the Buffer Size does not change the positioning of recorded audio. Also 8.1.5 doesn't.

Going back to using 8.2 for now.

I'm using an M audio Duo USB 2 audio interface.

Anyone else tried checking their driver error recently on 8.2.1? Try also adjusting the buffer size and see if the audio lands in a different place..

All the best

mayabong
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by mayabong » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:27 pm

I just downloaded the update, and I tried to change the compensation thing and my recorded audio seemed to stay in the same place it was. I went up and down as high as it would go and no change.
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Badger123
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by Badger123 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:09 pm

Hey thanks for the response mayabong

The monitoring has to be set to "off" for the offset to work. I think the driver error compensation still works with the in/auto/off setting set to "off" - It's the buffer result I'm interested in. Does the recording position change when you adjust the recording Buffer?

mayabong
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by mayabong » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:48 am

Ok i tested it. I kinda have my own way of testing. The ableton way of plugging this output to that input and what not was kinda weird for me.

What I do is hook up a mic, turn monitoring off, and turn on the metronome. I hold the mic to the speakers and record the metronome.

I tried it with the new version and it seems to line up the same for me.. my delay compensation is -2. Not sure what your problem could be.
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Badger123
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by Badger123 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:04 pm

Hi. If you set the buffer to maximum what happens?

steko
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by steko » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:43 pm

In Live 8.2.1, when I use the driver error compensation set to observe the delay I find that adjusting the Buffer Size changes the positioning of recorded audio. It never used to work like this.
It always did.

Latency compensation (Live removes the offset) of course only works (& always only did work) with the in/auto/off setting set to OFF.

Works fine here (audio gets moved) when monitor set to OFF (when direct/hardware-monitoring).

Am I missing something? What's the problem?

Could it be, you're mixing up driver error compensation with latency compensation? They are related, but not the same thing.
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Badger123
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by Badger123 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:14 am

Comparing 8.2 with 8.2.1 the following occurs:

When I make an adjustment to the recording buffer, audio recorded from an output back to the input behaves differently. In 8.2, the audio stays in the same place no matter what the setting of the buffer. I am talking about the buffer used to prevent clicks and pops, not the driver error correction setting:

In 8.2 when you record audio with any recording buffer setting, the program intelligently adjusts the placement of recorded audio.

In 8.2.1 on my system, when you adjust the buffer the recorded audio shifts by the buffer amount which makes use impractical: You shouldn't have to use the driver error correction setting to correct audio placement due to the buffer.

I'm not confusing the two. Try it in both versions and see.

steko
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by steko » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:19 pm

Just to make clear we're not talking past each other (& forgive me, if that's some "duh" stuff for ya):
In 8.2, the audio stays in the same place no matter what the setting of the buffer.
Sounds like track's monitor setting = AUTO, or IN. (recorded audio is placed how you monitor it through Live)

-> When comparing 8.2 with 8.2.1, in both versions the track's monitor settings are switched to OFF???
In 8.2.1 on my system, when you adjust the buffer the recorded audio shifts by the buffer amount which makes use impractical
When monitor = OFF, that's the expected behaviour.
You shouldn't have to use the driver error correction setting to correct audio placement due to the buffer.
Of course not. That's not the purpose of it. Though there's a widespread misconception, as many think you use the "driver error correction setting" to bring down latency to 0 (impossible). It's just there, because some drivers report the latency wrongly to Live & then that has to be corrected with the setting (e.g. 31 samples here -> "on top" of the real latency); and one should only have to do this once (& maybe when you install new drivers, as that possibly could change/be fixed then).

And just for the record: apart from the "driver error correction setting", in normal usage, OFF should only be used, if you do hardware-monitoring (through audio-interface/mixing console…).

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=832822#p832822
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massenmedium
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by massenmedium » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Badger123 wrote:You shouldn't have to use the driver error correction setting to correct audio placement due to the buffer.
Hmm, I've ended up doing this as well using 8.2.2b1

A bit fed up testing various permutations at the moment but it seems a bit odd.

Although my issue is a bit different. I'm using monitor in to record on audio tracks taking input from an other track using an External Instrument.

Badger123
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by Badger123 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:28 pm

When monitor = OFF, that's the expected behaviour.
Well that doesn't happen here on 8.2. Audio placement is delayed if I choose "auto" or "in" but not in "off".

It seems to me that in 8.2 the system knows how to place audio that occurs in real time during the time it is catching up on it's internal delays. 8.2.1 seems to not take it's own buffer setting into account and slides audio back by the buffer setting.

Please can responders check what's occurring in both versions by checking test recordings with the recording track monitoring set to "off" and the buffer setting set to max.

steko
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by steko » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:00 pm

Hey Badger123, I mixed it up...

It's of course exactly the other way round, like you wrote: when monitor is set to OFF, in both versions, changing the buffer should not change the audio placement.

Excuse the confusion (fucking latency stuff). :)
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steko
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by steko » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:29 pm

Just did the driver error compensation set on 8.2.1 with monitor = OFF -> changing the buffer doesn't change audio placement. So it works fine here.
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Badger123
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Re: Latency issues in 8.2.1

Post by Badger123 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:03 pm

Thank you Steko

Could be just my old interface. Sticking with 8.2 for now then.

Cheers.

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