newbie mystified by this thing.

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yaddablah
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newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by yaddablah » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:47 pm

wtf?

so i create a beat. fine. then I import a little clip and do stuff with that. Somehow I'm able to make a little arrangement. So far, so good.

But now I want to modify that clip, so copy it and paste it below its original self in the track view. I rename it.

And now my freaking arrangement won't play. I mean, I can't hear it.

Please, what on earth sort of technical wizardry makes the actions I took result in the results I got? And in what freaking parallel universe does that make any sense?

[I moan and groan when learning new software but the truth is I'm somewhat amazed by this thing].
Last edited by yaddablah on Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cezband
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by Cezband » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:22 pm

read about the "back to arrangement" button. All will become clear! :)
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perplex
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by perplex » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:17 pm

RTFM

yaddablah
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by yaddablah » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:23 pm

perplex wrote:RTFM

yaddablah
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by yaddablah » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:27 pm

read about the "back to arrangement" button. All will become clear!

OK, I found that thing and it made good. Still have no idea why; haven't read yet.

Your answer was much more helpful than RTFM.

jestermgee
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by jestermgee » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:42 pm

yaddablah wrote:
read about the "back to arrangement" button. All will become clear!

OK, I found that thing and it made good. Still have no idea why; haven't read yet.

Your answer was much more helpful than RTFM.
It is a common response "RTFM" because it holds true.

Most people that have the knowledge here and are educated have read the manual, and the tutorials, and the guides, and about 10,000 pages on this forum and other forums to get where they need to be BEFORE asking someone else for assistance.

Granted, you probably just want to "get on with it" but skill and knowledge comes best to those that teach themselves. By reading the manual as you play with Ableton you WILL discover a lot of things you can do. If you don't have the time/couldn't be bothered then why should anyone else.

A general rule should be if you have not spent at least 100 hours of learning time on the software you shouldn't be asking questions. If that sounds stupid, you won't be spending much time experimenting with music and creation by the sounds of it and will be bored of it anyway.

Warrior Bob
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by Warrior Bob » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:35 am

yaddablah wrote:OK, I found that thing and it made good. Still have no idea why; haven't read yet.
Ableton has two basic views of what is going on: Session View (vertical tracks, lots of clips you can launch) and Arrangement View (horizontal tracks on a timeline). Clips on both of these views contribute to the final sound that you hear.

The general rule is that Session View overrides the same track in Arrangement View so if you have something playing in track A on the arrangement, and you trigger a new clip on track A in Session, you'll get the Session clip and not the Arrangement clip. You'll even see the Arrangement clips turn grey, if you happen to be looking there.

What that "Back to Arrangement" button does is say "okay, no matter what I've been messing with, go back to playing what the Arrangement View has." The idea is that you can use Session view to experiment and be spontaneous and "live," while the Arrangement is there like sheet music or a tape machine, to store a version of the song that plays back the same way each time (until you mess with it, of course).

Hope this helps - the Live tutorials and manual are actually really good and surprisingly fun to go through too; I recommend them to everyone.
jestermgee wrote: A general rule should be if you have not spent at least 100 hours of learning time on the software you shouldn't be asking questions. If that sounds stupid, you won't be spending much time experimenting with music and creation by the sounds of it and will be bored of it anyway.
I think that might be a bit harsh, but your point is made. I tend to think that some people just need a bit of a push in the right direction to get started, but at the same time, the more work a person seems to have done before asking a question, the more likely people are to be willing to help.

Moreover, the more you've tried to figure it out yourself, the more the answers will make sense. This is true for most anything.

jestermgee
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by jestermgee » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:23 am

Warrior Bob wrote:
yaddablah wrote:OK, I found that thing and it made good. Still have no idea why; haven't read yet.
Ableton has two basic views of what is going on: Session View (vertical tracks, lots of clips you can launch) and Arrangement View (horizontal tracks on a timeline). Clips on both of these views contribute to the final sound that you hear.

The general rule is that Session View overrides the same track in Arrangement View so if you have something playing in track A on the arrangement, and you trigger a new clip on track A in Session, you'll get the Session clip and not the Arrangement clip. You'll even see the Arrangement clips turn grey, if you happen to be looking there.

What that "Back to Arrangement" button does is say "okay, no matter what I've been messing with, go back to playing what the Arrangement View has." The idea is that you can use Session view to experiment and be spontaneous and "live," while the Arrangement is there like sheet music or a tape machine, to store a version of the song that plays back the same way each time (until you mess with it, of course).

Hope this helps - the Live tutorials and manual are actually really good and surprisingly fun to go through too; I recommend them to everyone.
jestermgee wrote: A general rule should be if you have not spent at least 100 hours of learning time on the software you shouldn't be asking questions. If that sounds stupid, you won't be spending much time experimenting with music and creation by the sounds of it and will be bored of it anyway.
I think that might be a bit harsh, but your point is made. I tend to think that some people just need a bit of a push in the right direction to get started, but at the same time, the more work a person seems to have done before asking a question, the more likely people are to be willing to help.

Moreover, the more you've tried to figure it out yourself, the more the answers will make sense. This is true for most anything.
Might seem "Harsh" but i'm an old school software tracker from the days where there was no forum help... hell there was no such thing as Google when I started and dial up modems were still in the hundreds to buy (yes kids there was a time where the word Google ment nothing more than to look at someone\something with wide eyes).
I moan and groan when learning new software but the truth is I'm somewhat amazed by this thing
If Ableton was a guitar, what would be the point of playing the thing if it caused intellectual discomfort to "learn this new thing" to the point where you would be moaning and groaning? Too many people want to skip the learning process and just expect to start banging out the hot shit. I have been on every forum over the last 15 years seeing it time and time again. The learning process is suppose to be part of the whole thing. With software you must read manuals, figure out the computer side of things and the technology IN ADDITION to the musical side. It's actually more involved than learning an instrument.

With an instrument it takes time, practice, theory, playing to get good.

I do forget sometimes though that these forums are open to everyone and it may be a 12 year old asking the question or it may be a 40 year old getting into software after years of playing in a band. Doesn't matter the age, same applies to everyone. Set time aside to learn instead of expecting to just succeed.

Warrior Bob
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by Warrior Bob » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:39 am

jestermgee wrote:Might seem "Harsh" but i'm an old school software tracker from the days where there was no forum help... hell there was no such thing as Google when I started and dial up modems were still in the hundreds to buy (yes kids there was a time where the word Google ment nothing more than to look at someone\something with wide eyes).
Whoa, no way! Which tracker? I got started on ScreamTracker 3 myself although I never was very good at it.
jestermgee wrote:I do forget sometimes though that these forums are open to everyone and it may be a 12 year old asking the question or it may be a 40 year old getting into software after years of playing in a band. Doesn't matter the age, same applies to everyone. Set time aside to learn instead of expecting to just succeed.
I might disagree with some of your specifics but this quote (and the general point) is quite true.

Even with help from people on a forum (which we're happy to provide, since we're posting here), nobody's going to get good and make amazing things without lots of learning and experience. And that takes time and work. It can be fun work but it's still work and you gotta do it if you want to improve :)

jestermgee
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by jestermgee » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:15 am

I started on Fasttracker II and Cubic Player in the good ole win95 days. I then moved to Buzz Tracker in 2002 (because all these were FREE) and then onto Cubase a little later when I got the LE version with my soundcard.

I mean no offence to posters and am more than happy to help and assist with a variety of things (look through just what I assist with all over the net) BUT I do get annoyed when people fail to help themselves.

IF the OP just phrased their introduction aa little differently, the same question would have been answered quicker. A simple "I'm new and am reading the manual and getting started but am puzzled why this is happening". Text doesn't convey the emotion someone has and I instantly take the original post as another "I want to know this and that and I can't be bothered doing work so i'll add another thread to this forum to get my question answered quickly instead of thinking through this"

This is why you will see mountains of questions unanswered because people get sick of the same things again and again. At least if people read these threads they will be reminded to do a bit of reading first...

:? That doesn't make sense... The whole horse i'm on here is because people don't read. Hmmmm, I should probably just mozey on out o' here

yaddablah
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by yaddablah » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:18 pm

thx warrior.

w/r/t the other guy...he probably means well. needs some fresh air, is all.

Dragonbreath
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by Dragonbreath » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:21 am

Yah some guys on the forums just dont like newbs... dont take them seriously

But some good points have been lifted

Spend a little time reading the manual... ask questions on here too, but read the manual

I read most of it front to back, its really helpfull
just make it a point to read a few pages everyday.
You will be glad you did.
Your question will be answered faster then you think of them

jestermgee
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by jestermgee » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:47 am

Hey, please don't take my comments the wrong way or personally, I don't have issues with anyone, newbie or not (just follow my comments here or anywhere on other forums).

I do, however, believe that a newcomer should at least take the time to read through the manual before being allowed to post on the forum. I mean the manual is only 500 pages and those pages are really only half a page with pictures. Even skim reading a modest reader could finish the manual in a few hours.

This has been asked a number of times before AND EVEN doing a search on this forum for “arrangement won't play” will find you the result only 3 results down. Also doing searches on similar variants finds the answer. ALSO, Google finds this and even assists with videos, not to mention the manual again... 8)

Do take this seriously though because who better to help you than yourself? If you search for an hour and still don't find an answer, then open a new thread and ask, but if you hit a problem and haven't attempted to find your answer, why expect us to?

yaddablah
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Re: newbie mystified by this thing.

Post by yaddablah » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:48 pm

no worries all. my original post was cranky, anyway.

Right now I'm feeling good because the first track and official "composition" is progressing satisfactorily. When I hit a wall, I'll be cranky again.

There's no substitute for doing your own homework. OTOH, when someone asks a question, usually what they're looking for is an answer...

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