Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

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Koun
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:34 am

Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by Koun » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:49 am

Hi there !

I’m a recent LIVE user and have encountered my first issues ;-)
The problem of the impossible unwarped loop has been tackled in many threads in this forum and on the web. Let me firstly say, in case some LIVE developer shows up here, that a rally those who show total amazement for this issue : why on earth is looping an unwarped item impossible ??? Certainly not for technical reasons, it’s not the most difficult thing to realize. An update on this would be relieving ;-)

This being said, here’s why a new thread : the given solutions do not fit my purpose. Setting global time to fit the sample tempo is OK but in my project there are several tempo changes, given by the TAP. Therefore not usable. My sample must be played in the original tempo, whatever the global tempo is. I therefore need :

- A LIVE update with looping available for unwarped itemps

- a « master tempo » function giving to the sample priority to impose its tempo to the global one, being thereafter « slave ». This way, I could warp my sample, given that it would launch in its original tempo and set the global one equally. This « master/slave » function seems to exist, but as I understand it only in the arrangement view. Why, O why...

- a way to suddenly, with the help of a midi controller, impose a tempo. Example : « when I trig that controller, global tempo will be set at 122.5 BPM »

So, shortly said : can someone give me a solution to loop an unwarped sample at its original tempo in a project that deals with different tempi in real time...

So many thanks for reading and sorry if some of my english is weird, I actually speak french ;-)

Koun
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:34 am

Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by Koun » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:00 am

Precision: the "follow actions" are useless here too, being BPM dependant...

oddstep
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Location: Plymouth the great

Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by oddstep » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:07 am

- a way to suddenly, with the help of a midi controller, impose a tempo. Example : « when I trig that controller, global tempo will be set at 122.5 BPM »
you can name scenes with a bpm, (for example "144 bpm" as scene name) launching the scene changes the tempo.

looping unwarped audio is best achieved through either simpler or sampler. this technique combined with the creation of endless loops through the correct placement of clip loop start/end points can create samples that loop forever once they have been started.

Live is all about looping warped audio, looping unwarped audio is something samplers do.

Koun
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:34 am

Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by Koun » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:42 am

YES, oddstep, your idea of launching scenes seems like the good way to go for me ! Thank you!
However, if my current tempo is 250 BPM and I launch a scene titled 112 BPM, LIVE will take a few micro seconds to adjust the tempo, creating a weird de-stretching sound at the launch of the clip, which is annoying, as if the tempo changed JUST after le sample started playing, and not just before... Any solution for that and that would be totally working for me !

oddstep
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Location: Plymouth the great

Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by oddstep » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:38 am

and this delay happens if you have global quantisation set to none? that's the greatest precision available.

oddstep
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Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by oddstep » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:40 am

perhaps navigate madness by investigating buffer times and latencies on the hardware interface?

Hermanus
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Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by Hermanus » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:31 pm

Koun wrote:if my current tempo is 250 BPM and I launch a scene titled 112 BPM, LIVE will take a few micro seconds to adjust the tempo, creating a weird de-stretching sound at the launch of the clip,

+10 to Oddstep

This sounds more like a short buffer size OR very wrong audio interface configuration.
When you launch the next scene with different tempo it launches it without any problem.
Take the time to set your audio card

You could even download the live8 performance test [just make a search on the forum]
and see how your computer handles Ableton live.

yur2die4
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Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by yur2die4 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:27 pm

People have mentioned the simpler/sampler option before. Nice thing is it is possible to put multiple loops in a Rack (drum rack is easier when it comes to automatic tuning), and then create endless loop midi clips each with the appropriate note to trigger a loop (and then labelled accordingly). Fun thing is, using pitchbend (sustain on pitch envelope is an alternative but pb has finer control. Unfortunately pb also tends to bounce back to zero :/), you can do old school dj mixing using Sampler :P

Another fun idea for those who like phasing (although it requires warping), is to choose a part of any length in Arrangement View and loop it. The third number for 16th notes of length turns orange for odd amounts of time but it still loops. Finally you can set the tempo of the one warp marker (there should only be one), to the tempo of the project. This would not help on the case here as, tempo changes would really mess things up.


Edit: ahhhhh crap. This is what I get for skipping through all the replies........

Koun
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:34 am

Re: Loop. Warp. Tempo. Master. Slave. Issues. ;-)

Post by Koun » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:05 am

Hi there,
Thank you so much for the many answers!

To oddstep: yes, the little stretching bug happens even with both global and clip quantisations set to none.
I'll see around this "performance test" cause I have no idea how to set my audio card... ;-/

Thanks also for the simpler/sampler option idea, I'll see that when I get a little bit more time ;-)

Now another question: isn't there a follow action for the scenes ?? My scene is playing and I would like the text one to start (with its right tempo) just after it ends or after 8 bars... If I select a follow action in the clips, it does not load the desired tempo change...

thanks

EDIT: I can't find the "performance test" thread, if anyone can help...

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