POLL: Are you having servere LAGTIME using arrange view?

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Are you having severe lag time in arrange view?

YES! it makes using the arrange sequencer nearly impossible
90
71%
NO routine copy/paste/dup operations are nice and smooth .. no problem
37
29%
 
Total votes: 127

kabelton
Posts: 432
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Post by kabelton » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:09 pm

any news?

8O

Crealive
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:17 am

Post by Crealive » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:57 am

Let's not forget this thread and the problem. How are things coming along Ableton! Any news on improving this!
Laptop Intel Pentium 4, 3.2 Ghz., 512 Ram
Tascam US-122 Audiointerface, Live 5, 5.01, 5.02.

Magnetotron
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:45 pm

Post by Magnetotron » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:30 am

I am experiencing something similar to this, however I can reproduce this lag in either the session view or the arrangement view. If I open a set with one of our live recordings, which has about 8 tracks of sometimes several hour long audio tracks (the set can get above 4-6 gig easily), and try to zoom in on one of the clips in the arrangement view, the zoom level will only go in to a certain point before I start experiencing a several second lag between responses. Even if I drag one of the tracks into the session view and try to zoom in on the clip the lag will happen. The closer I zoom in on the clip, the longer the lag which can get above 15 seconds.

I havent really found a workaround for grabbing loops from these large sets. I suppose I can chop the set up before attempting this, but it seems like a pain. Has anyone else come up with a good effecient work flow for grabbing loops from long audio clips?

supster
Posts: 2133
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Location: Orlando FL

Post by supster » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:12 am

Magnetotron wrote:Has anyone else come up with a good effecient work flow for grabbing loops from long audio clips?
i think you'll find if you try and move any of the clips around on the grid when you are getting these slowdowns, that the move/cut/duplicate will also perform lagged.

the only consistant way to reduce the problem that ive found is to make sure everything is straight audio - get rid of all of your VSTi and third party plugins.

and make sure you are using the minimum amount of RAM in your OS. these things are the only thing that help, and it still doesnt perform nearly as cleanly as Cubase/PT/Logic when doing clip operations.

this is partly because of the way that ableton represents clip data and operations in Live i think - its built in, which is why i have some pretty serious doubts about how much and how fast this is ever going to improve without a rewrite of the program.

.
--
NEW SPECS: Athlon 4200+ dual; A8N-SLI m/b; Win XP Home SP2; 1 GB RAM; 2x 7200 RPM HDD: 1 internal, 1 Firewire 800 (Firewire is project data drive); M-Audio Triggerfinger

josh 'vonster' von; tracks and sets
http://www.joshvon.com

timothyallan
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Post by timothyallan » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:16 am

There are a few seperate threads dedicated to the "Zooming in lag" which is different from the "general lag" that this thread is about. That zooming in one gives me grief galore and I've yet to find a workaround for it. Even if you only have a few audio tracks and no VST's, it still happens...

longjohns
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Location: seattle

Post by longjohns » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:46 am

no real problem here. i just had a go with the most complex set i've got going at the moment (still probably fairly simple compared to what some folks have going though).

about 18 tracks total, probably about 8 playing at any given moment, a fair amount of FX, including 3 reverbs, some delays, a few eq's, some clip and fX automation.

only sluggish when i tried to split and duplicate clips which were currently playing, across the song position marker. no break in audio, but approx 3-5 sec delay to see the copies make it onto the display.

this set peaks at about 60%cpu and does have a few crackles which i haven't completely nailed down. there is quite a bit of automation and reverb happening at the trouble spot.

asus p4p800dlx
p4 2.6c SL6WH
2x 512 pc3200 ddr
2x 80g seagate 7200rpm (all audio and vst on the 2nd drive)
shit video card (savage s3? s4?)
aardvark lx-6 (no picnic)
xp pro sp1
live 5.02

supster
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:26 am
Location: Orlando FL

Post by supster » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:12 am

longjohns wrote:no real problem here. i just had a go with the most complex set i've got going at the moment (still probably fairly simple compared to what some folks have going though).

about 18 tracks total, probably about 8 playing at any given moment, a fair amount of FX, including 3 reverbs, some delays, a few eq's, some clip and fX automation.

only sluggish when i tried to split and duplicate clips which were currently playing, across the song position marker. no break in audio, but approx 3-5 sec delay to see the copies make it onto the display.

this set peaks at about 60%cpu and does have a few crackles which i haven't completely nailed down. there is quite a bit of automation and reverb happening at the trouble spot.

asus p4p800dlx
p4 2.6c SL6WH
2x 512 pc3200 ddr
2x 80g seagate 7200rpm (all audio and vst on the 2nd drive)
shit video card (savage s3? s4?)
aardvark lx-6 (no picnic)
xp pro sp1
live 5.02

i really hope somebody out there is taking note of the people like this that are running reasonable systems and getting reasonable performance with this issue.

and others with similar setups are not

WHY
.l
--
NEW SPECS: Athlon 4200+ dual; A8N-SLI m/b; Win XP Home SP2; 1 GB RAM; 2x 7200 RPM HDD: 1 internal, 1 Firewire 800 (Firewire is project data drive); M-Audio Triggerfinger

josh 'vonster' von; tracks and sets
http://www.joshvon.com

henry ford
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:30 am

Post by henry ford » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:02 am

everyone uses it different. while someone might harp on that its stable and fine, they probably dont rely on the arranger, or even use it at all. and so on. or maybe they use it just a little bit now and then , only using a few tracks etc.

thats my theory

signal
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:48 am

Post by signal » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:54 am

henry ford wrote:everyone uses it different. while someone might harp on that its stable and fine, they probably dont rely on the arranger, or even use it at all. and so on. or maybe they use it just a little bit now and then , only using a few tracks etc.

thats my theory
I think this is true. After considerable time building up a few projects in Session I finally noticed the massively frustrating lag after recording several 40+ track sessions into arrange view. As most of these tracks were devoted to rerouting and subgrouping audio from 6-8 Impulse samplers, the resulting arrangements only had about 6-12 tracks with sequenced clip data.

Cut/copy/paste and definitely drag/drop functions are so slow as to be practically useless. Like 30+ seconds for selected data to land where you drop it. Then you do it again because Live slows waaay down before you can even position the cursor properly so your paste/drop mostly ends up off a gridspot or two. All of this without the slightest hint of sluggishness in Session view.

Aside from the intensive channel routing, these sets are otherwise modest in scope. Mainly dry audio clips with some MIDI clips driving the Impulse samplers all with envelope edits.

Note the lack here of any FX or third party VSTi plugs. CPU usage well under 15% and 1gig RAM.

This problem has been around since version 4.x

supster
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:26 am
Location: Orlando FL

Post by supster » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:02 am

signal wrote:Cut/copy/paste and definitely drag/drop functions are so slow as to be practically useless. Like 30+ seconds for selected data to land where you drop it. Then you do it again because Live slows waaay down before you can even position the cursor properly so your paste/drop mostly ends up off a gridspot or two. All of this without the slightest hint of sluggishness in Session view.
have you tried to duplicate scenes in the same set?

try and duplicate (CTRL-D) a scene down the grid in the same project in session view. same lag or no?

how about using Live Clips? is there an equivant pause trying to drag them from the browser?
Note the lack here of any FX or third party VSTi plugs. CPU usage well under 15% and 1gig RAM.
interesting.

there goes the theory that its mainly 3rd party VST related.

what are your system specs (detailed if you can .. motherboard, chipset) and espeically how much memory and what type are you running?
This problem has been around since version 4.x
actually for me i noticed it almost right away in vs 2 when i first started using this program. long before any MIDI or VST support. its only gotten progressively worse
.
--
NEW SPECS: Athlon 4200+ dual; A8N-SLI m/b; Win XP Home SP2; 1 GB RAM; 2x 7200 RPM HDD: 1 internal, 1 Firewire 800 (Firewire is project data drive); M-Audio Triggerfinger

josh 'vonster' von; tracks and sets
http://www.joshvon.com

amo
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Location: Paris/France
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Post by amo » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:07 am

I did have a very severe lagtime during the coldcut remix contest... Normally I keep things clean and all, but for that one I've split the audio files in tiny tiny ieces and rearranged them in the arrange view, finishing with one zillion bits of clips. Then, trying to move all at the top of the timeline, as I started to work anywhere, I just tries to frag all, nothing happens.... wait....wait.... 20 minutes.... kill Live !
Plus couple of other issues, like "serious program error blabla" when trying to drag some parts etc....

As for Live clips, I get a quite" reasonnable" lag time since it vreates the devices on the fly, but nothing unbearable.

Just a drop in the ocean.
amo
Live 5.0.3 - IBM Thinkpad R51 1.5ghz Centrino - 1,5 Go RAM - 7200 RPM 2nd HDD intern - RME Multiface - Windows XP Pro SP2

hambone1
Posts: 5346
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Abu Dhabi

Post by hambone1 » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:21 am

The lag time when dragging clips needs fixing. I'm glad to hear the Abes are on it, and hope they'll deliver soon.

I drag lots of big live clips (sometimes 40 tracks x 8 scenes) to and from the browser in session view for creating and using Live clips. It can take as long as ten seconds to complete the drag 'n drop. FWIW, you don't have to wait for the graphics to "catch up" when dragging. When dragging from the browser in session view, just position your mouse pointer on the upper left cell, and let go. It'll get there!

Also, when finish recording in arrangement view, I find it easier to select all, consolidate, copy, switch to session view, choose the appropriate cell, and paste.

The dragging thing IS too much of a drag! :?

cherry-k
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:50 pm
Location: hamburg - germany
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Post by cherry-k » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:55 pm

Hi to all,

have the same Problem here. I use L5 as main composing/arranging/production tool. With about 12 tracks, few of ableton FX - 1 free VST, 2 Impulse and one Operator Track it is surely veeeeeryy slow. As known I get clicks and stuff, and working without freezing is impossible. But also when I did that and the CPU reads between 50 and 70 % I often get the orange light of the HD and often L5 freezes but audio plays on. Especially with one song the problem occurs when I just start it. The only way to stop ist quitting L5 - but even then the L5 process is still running. I know I don´t have the fastest machine, but L4 was definitively faster.... :(

greetz

cherry

edit 3
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bluskreen
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:28 am
Location: PA USA

Post by bluskreen » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:22 pm

BUMP!!!!

clayev2k
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 4:56 am
Location: san diego, ca

LIVE 7.0.10....VERY disappointing performance!!!!!

Post by clayev2k » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:17 am

as someone who's been using LIVE since v.3 and paid for every upgrade since.....i have to say i'm saddened by
what feels immediately like diminished performance.
even with as few as 8 tracks...split between audio and midi and with a very basic arsenal of fx.....
i get sluggishness after minor edits and the crackliness of the sound is just BAD.
the CPU overloads to 65-70% and i thought ableton now supported dual-processors.

someone's suggesting you stop play when doing an edit is preposterous.
one would have to stop the song a thousand times in one session just to try the various tweaks....
the whole point of ANY decent sequencer is to be able to perform edits in REAL TIME....and the point of any upgrade is to improve sound and performance and not
lessen it.

i own cubase sx3, and logic pro7 but have always enjoyed and preferred the ableton environment....
up until 7.

Locked