POLL: Are you having servere LAGTIME using arrange view?

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:21 am

I forgot to mention. I am not posting here again it stresses me out reading the problems and lies. If I post again it will be to sell my copy of live. Supster you are a good guy please keep up with your battle and ignore those who write songs with five tracks and say everything is good. Its as bad on a mac as it is on a pc. Anyone says different they lie or write basic music

astar · Post by **astar** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:29 am

yes the arrange view issues are ridiculous... it's pretty much unusable for complex projects even with a workhorse machine

I have found the best work around is to not move large amounts of clips at once since this is when it gets really bad. for example, if you are a copying a 2 minute section that includes about 10 tracks worth of clips, it's actually quicker to copy it in 30 second sections instead of copying it all at once!

also DELETE TIME and PASTE TIME are your friends

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:18 am

radeon wrote:To those who never use the arrangemnt page the problem is not severe in session view. and pasting is completely difeerent from dragging multiple parts in arrange to make copies of them.

I'm following this link out of curiosity, not having the problems you mention, but I notice that not everyone is complaining about the same thing.
Some say pasting AND dragging are equally bad whereas you say that only dragging is slow.
For me (I work A LOT in arrange) dragging is slowish but manageable, pasting is fast.

If pasting is fast enough for you, why not using cut/paste instead of dragging, until they sort it out ?

radeon wrote: Anyone says different they lie or write basic music

there's an average 30 tracks of audio plus 10 or more midi in my projects, using absynth, kontact, electric piano, junoX2, reaktor5, and many other depending on projects, and I DON'T have your problem. I do a lot of multitracking (real drums) and have to move big or small chunks of audio all the time.
I'm making a living out of music, I have griefs with live but not this one

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:19 am

supster wrote:i did recieve a brief reply from ableton this morning.

apparently this problem *is* related to the priority the audio is given over the graphic interface.

strange explanation. the lag it also there with no audio running. so there's nothing running wich 'steals' resources. in session-view you can move parts very fast without delay. so why this shouldn't be possible in the arrangement-view?

i've not tried 5.0.2 that much. but it seems it's a bit better than 5.0.1 (where i really had lags of more than 4 seconds or so).

my setup:

INTEL P4 2.5GHz
INTEL Chipset
WIN XP SP2
1 GB RDRAM ECC
7200 RPM HITACHI HDD
MATROX P650 AGP
RME HDSP 9632

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:28 am

Dandruff wrote:i've not tried 5.0.2 that much. but it seems it's a bit better than 5.0.1 (where i really had lags of more than 4 seconds or so).

Although 4 seconds is not "fast" people here complain about lags of between 10 and 30 seconds.
4 seconds is slow but honestly is that really stopping you from working ?

Dandruff · Post by **Dandruff** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:35 am

of course. arranging has to be fast. these 4 seconds per action also add up. so in the end you really waste a lot of time and nerves. i'm tired of waiting just to see some parts copied.

this has to be improved. and i think ableton will improve this.

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:45 am

4 seconds IS actually very slow in certain circumstances. Try doing a stutter-ish FX with 40-100 pieces of audio and see how frustrating it can be.

I'm not sure that it can be improved too much without sacrificing something else. Live is obviously processing things while you've got that mouse down, you can watch the processor plow through something.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:10 pm

timothyallan wrote:4 seconds IS actually very slow in certain circumstances. Try doing a stutter-ish FX with 40-100 pieces of audio and see how frustrating it can be.

For this kind of stuff I do a quick resample onto a separate track and edit that instead. This way you can also do reorder/re-warp stuff to the file real easy and then just go back to the full arrangement.

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:17 pm

by seperate track, do you mean project? If so, thats what I've been having to resort to doing...

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:11 pm

Chris J wrote: For me (I work A LOT in arrange) dragging is slowish but manageable, pasting is fast.

interesting cause your processor is only one generation up from mine ... same amount of RAM (1gb)

whats your video card and chipset?

ps: you the same chris J that has done stuff with patrick turner?

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:18 pm

[quote="timothyallan". Live is obviously processing things while you've got that mouse down, you can watch the processor plow through something.[/quote]

yes!! this is the key. but what?

i dont believe that theres theoretically any reason for that. these clips are just pointers to data on the harddrive. in the case of MIDI clips, even less.

working with clips should be like working with a word processor, they are just bits of data with properties and values that need to be shifted around

what the hell is it doing thats so complicated while its just sitting there idle, CPU not even breaking 25 or less in some cases?

no: there is definitely something wrong with this application - there might be something that is compounded by certain gear - but there is something wrong with the way that it handles this function on a basic level.
.

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:48 pm

supster wrote:interesting cause your processor is only one generation up from mine ... same amount of RAM (1gb)
whats your video card and chipset?
ps: you the same chris J that has done stuff with patrick turner?

graphics : Ati 9250

no, I don't know patrick turner

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:52 pm

definitely.

I dont know how live works exactly, but as a developer myself, I cant see it needing to do *that* much to move/copy a clip in the arrange view. At most, its got to: copy warp markers, swing, quantize, warp settings, envelopes ... a few other bits and pieces associated with a clip, but these should not amount to a huge amount of data ... plus of course the pointer to the audio on disk or in memory.

Its strange ... I would also like to know what its doing while i'm gritting my teeth with mouse button pressed for how ever many long seconds it takes.... and then forget what the hell I was gonna do next

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:47 pm

elemental wrote:definitely.

I dont know how live works exactly, but as a developer myself, I cant see it needing to do *that* much to move/copy a clip in the arrange view. At most, its got to: copy warp markers, swing, quantize, warp settings, envelopes ... a few other bits and pieces associated with a clip, but these should not amount to a huge amount of data ... plus of course the pointer to the audio on disk or in memory.

you're right, this is exactly what ive wondered for a couple of years now.

why?

especially when other applications move midi and audio events around the grid with no problems even close to that, using the same exact gear and available resources

elemental wrote:Its strange ... I would also like to know what its doing while i'm gritting my teeth with mouse button pressed for how ever many long seconds it takes.... and then forget what the hell I was gonna do next

i feel your pain brutha, cuz you are speaking my life right now

i would love to finally hear a good explanation for this, but it seems like ableton has slowly gone from a company that was on here actively working with the people that are paying for thier product and going out of thier way to get involved and help them fix things

to one that is aloof and absent from the forums. i wouldnt be suprised if they are somewhat fed up and tired of hearing about all the problems.
.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:34 pm

Ableton have either :
never experienced the ten second wait themselves, or ..
have no idea how to fix it , or..
think it isn't that significant a problem, or ...
Know how to fix it, but it is so hard as to take some time.

otherwise they would have done it already.

I wonder which option it is?

it may be getting worse (?), but it's certainly been in the app for a while (at least V4)

POLL: Are you having servere LAGTIME using arrange view?

Are you having severe lag time in arrange view?