Live 5.0.3 starts in the middle of the beat

supster · Post by **supster** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:14 pm

unusable wrote:do a search "fucking orange dot". There's tons of info out there.

yeah, make sure and check 'search for all terms' in the search form

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:18 am

damn.

i am *really* glad my lazy ass hasn't bothered to update to 5.03.

::wipes brow::

whew!

really sorry you all are goin' nuts...i agree that the old way works and i can see this new version is pretty damn maddening.

p.s. i have the original 5_02.exe file.
question for the abes: is it ok to share that for those who need to go back and can't get the install file again?

astar · Post by **astar** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:25 am

I'm surprised that Stefan missed the down side to this supposed "fix".

The problem with the reasoning for this fix is you are assuming that when we hit stop that we want Live to remember where everything was last time we were "jamming". Most of the time we DON'T want this.

When I'm jamming in session view I often like to clean the slate and start the clips fresh... The easiest way to do this was with the spacebar but now that's not possible.. In 5.0.2 if I actually wanted LIVE to remember a clip's position I would just use the "keep" button and that worked fine for me.

Now in 5.0.3 it is becoming increasingly more difficult to get rid of that blasphemous orange dot!

Let's say I fuck up somewhere while jamming in session.. Maybe I triggered a clip 1/16 too late or something and it sounds like a trainwreck.
So, of course, I want to start again from scratch with all clips I was just playing running in normal time again. What do I do? In 5.0.2 I would just stop the transport then play again. But In 5.0.3 if I hit stop and start again my fuck up just keeps on playing the way it did before..... ANNOYING.

That being said, I can see how both methods can be useful.

SO Why not have a modifier?
i.e.
Spacebar=start clips at 1.1.1 (5.0.2 behaviour)
Modifier+Spacebar = start clips at time where they were previously fired (5.0.3 behaviour)

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:37 am

looks like another instance of Ableton's not using their own program...

too many wishes in the wishlist, let's make a change nobody asked for.

signal · Post by **signal** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:33 pm

I am another person who double taps the space bar to retrigger clips from the 1 while working in session. I do this countless times in every arrangement, nearly every time I use Live. I've been doing this for years and never once thought about it until today because it just made sense.

That is why this statement by Mr. Haller is baffling:

"What you are describing is not a bug; we consider the previous behaviour to be broken, and fixed it in 5.0.3, in our opinion."

Ableton clearly has some kind of vision for this program, but it is getting harder and harder to maintain my enthusiasm as some of the most basic and intuitive operations of this app are changed with no warning, no explanation and, arguably, no compelling reason. The orange dot and this transport function in particular sort of make sense on paper, but are awkward in practice.

In the interest of full disclosure, I must say that I've only demoed Live 5 because just when I think "OK, now I'll upgrade from ver. 4 because the major bugs and inconsistencies seem to be mostly worked out." I come across a thread like this and am reminded that the only new feature that I'm actually excited about is plug-in delay compensation.

If I remember correctly, I skipped Live 3 completely. Maybe I'll just stick to the even numbered iterations.

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:50 pm

Really a weird change this one!
If they consider that it was broke from version 1, than this one:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

wich is there from version 1 I suggest is much more unlogical and would make more sense to change than this one.
Please have a read, if it´s not understandable just let me know, then I´ll try to explain it easier. Well it´s something you don´t notice most of the times you work, but it makes simply no sense.

Greetings

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:52 pm

Our clips, play in the middle of our beats
Our clips, play in the middle of our ...

Our clips they always have a groove
There's always something happening
And it's usually quite loud
I'm a DJ and i'm so house-proud
Nothing ever slows us down
And this mess is not allowed

Our clips, play in the middle of our beats
Our clips, play in the middle of our ...

Our clips, play in the middle of our beats
Our clips, play in the middle of our ...
Something tells you that you've got to get away from it

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:58 pm

actually i've had a change of heart....i kind of like this new feature. it really compliments the audio glitches. I was gonna waste some time learning max/msp to make some generative granular style music. now all i have to do is press play

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:13 pm

there is no modifier then to get it start on the one? Do you have to double click stop on the transport twice to get it back to 1.1.1 w/ this new feature?

I use Live to DJ so when I start a set, its off and running and I don't stop or restart the program in the middle of the set and always retrigger clips manually while the program is running if I need to. Clips usually equal songs in my case, so maybe this isn't why I haven't noticed this issue....

rob.

GaryTracks · Post by **GaryTracks** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:32 pm

i cant believe ABLETON would provide dowloads of 5.0.3 without a file indicating these changes. it was fuckin' with my head! ABLETON YOU ARE MY SAVIOUR. please don't forget me.

funk313 · Post by **funk313** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:43 am

henry ford wrote:actually i've had a change of heart....i kind of like this new feature. it really compliments the audio glitches. I was gonna waste some time learning max/msp to make some generative granular style music. now all i have to do is press play

HAHA LOL

hitechfunk · Post by **hitechfunk** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:14 am

this sucks .. I'm working on this album and i can't even finish it because of this freaking bug ,.... FIX IT .. this software is not cheap !!!!!!

brecht · Post by **brecht** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:36 am

geezers like me might remember back to the old live 2 days when they
introduced this clip start behavior the first time:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4107
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5196

a similar flame war ensued and the change was subsequently yanked.

unusable · Post by **unusable** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:34 am

wow, this has been has been boiling on the back burner for some while, someones just been waiting to slip it in there.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:33 am

unusable wrote:wow, this has been has been boiling on the back burner for some while, someones just been waiting to slip it in there.

indeed
and there's something to be said for the days Gerhard and Bern (some of the nicest department managers and CEO's you will meet) would come and post on the forum.

see them lurking from time to time.. wonder if they know about this simmering.

Live 5.0.3 starts in the middle of the beat

MAD!!