newbie : External Gear MIDI Program Change

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Pasha
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newbie : External Gear MIDI Program Change

Post by Pasha » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:58 am

Is there anybody who uses external gear with success?
If so which ones?
I have Roland JV1010 and Alesis Nanosynth, I cannot change sounds using the Program Change controls. I'm not able to get a succesful Bank change, I can only select 128 Patches within the bank selected from the hardware panel of the external modules. Both modules work ok with CubaseSX.
Any clue? Tips? Trick? I'm desperate! :(
I'm testing 5.0.3 but no success so far, I would like to upgrade to full Live 5! :cry:
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
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hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:21 am

Make a new clip in a MIDI track. Make sure it's routed correctly to your synth.

In the Notes section, set your desired bank, sub-bank, and program.

Launch the clip. It will choose the appropriate patch on your synth for you.

Pasha
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Post by Pasha » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:44 am

hambone1 wrote:Make a new clip in a MIDI track. Make sure it's routed correctly to your synth.

In the Notes section, set your desired bank, sub-bank, and program.

Launch the clip. It will choose the appropriate patch on your synth for you.
Just done it. It ignores Bank Select Messages. Are you using a Roland or other gear ?

I think it's because of the message structures in my Roland JV1010 gear:

Bank Select (Controller number 0,32)

status 2nd byte 3rd byte
BnH 00H mmH
BnH 20H llH
n=MIDI channel number : 0H - FH (ch.1 - ch.16)
mm,ll=Bank number : 00 00H - 7F 7FH (bank.1 - bank.16384)

* Not received when the Receive Program Change or Receive Bank Select is OFF.
* Not received in GM mode.
* The Patches corresponding to each Bank Select are as follows.

Bank Select | Program No | Group Patch No.
MSB | LSB | |
------+-----+------------+----------------------------------------
80 | 0 | 0 - 127 | User 1 - 128
81 | 0 | 0 - 127 | PR-A 1 - 128
81 | 1 | 0 - 127 | PR-B 1 - 128
81 | 2 | 0 - 127 | PR-C 1 - 128
81 | 3 | 0 - 127 | GM 1 - 128
81 | 4 | 0 - 127 | PR-E 1 - 128
84 | 0 | 0 - 127 | XP-A (Session) 1 - 128
84 | 1 | 0 - 126 | XP-A 129 - 255
84 | 2 | 0 - 127 | XP-B 1 - 128
84 | 3 | 0 - 126 | XP-B 129 - 255

In the clip I got Bank,SubBank,Program if I want a GM nylon guitar I will select Bank 81, SubBank 3, Program 25. This is not working.
If I put the module in GM Mode (via hardware knob) what I obtain is that I can select any of the 128 presets within the GM Bank. This corresponds to what it's said above, because during Hardware GM Mode Bank Select messages are ignored.
Strange to say, this happens even when any other bank is hardware selected and I am in Performance mode.If I Hardware select the PR-C Bank I have chance to change all 128 programs in that Bank.
Simply Bank Messages seems to be ignored. Last but not least some banks have a subbank number of 0 which is not possible to select.
Sorry to going into the details but I'm really desperate! :cry:
Any suggestion is welcomed! BTW this module works easily with CubaseSx.
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:22 pm

I haven't used hardware synths since I sold my JV-2080, so I can't help you out. I only use the program change in Live for a rewired video app.

Hopefully, someone else will pipe in here with some help.

Pasha
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Post by Pasha » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:55 pm

hambone1 wrote:I haven't used hardware synths since I sold my JV-2080, so I can't help you out. I only use the program change in Live for a rewired video app.
Looks interesting : Are you using VSTi? if yes which one?
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
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Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Joost
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Post by Joost » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:35 pm

Have you checked the remote out button in the midi preferences?

Pasha
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Post by Pasha » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:19 pm

Joost wrote:Have you checked the remote out button in the midi preferences?
Yes but unfortunately nothing changes :roll:
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Pasha
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Does anybody care?

Post by Pasha » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:24 pm

Any ideas ?
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Frank Hoffmann
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Post by Frank Hoffmann » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:23 pm

Have you tried to record the Program Change into Live?

Frank
Frank Hoffmann
hoffmann@ableton.com

Pasha
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Post by Pasha » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:35 pm

Frank Hoffmann wrote:Have you tried to record the Program Change into Live?

Frank
How do I accomplish that?
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Frank Hoffmann
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Post by Frank Hoffmann » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:43 pm

Good question, the JV-1010 is a expander, isn't it. I would think when the JV-1010 MIDI out is connected to Live and you switch a program on the front panel it would send a program change over the midi wire into Live. If you are recording a clip while doing that, the program change should be recorded into the clip.

Frank
Frank Hoffmann
hoffmann@ableton.com

Pasha
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Post by Pasha » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:01 pm

Frank Hoffmann wrote:Good question, the JV-1010 is a expander, isn't it. I would think when the JV-1010 MIDI out is connected to Live and you switch a program on the front panel it would send a program change over the midi wire into Live. If you are recording a clip while doing that, the program change should be recorded into the clip.

Frank
Hi Frank, it's pity we cannot chat privately. It would take 5 minutes to understand. Tried to record a clip, same result, no Program Change.
My take until now (I have received answers from support and we're in contact) is that JV1010 needs a particular format, with MSB and LSB that is not common among the GM specification. JV1010 has three main modes : Patch, Performance (this is used for multitimbral) and GM. When GM mode is selected via the panel Bank switch is ignored and you have access to 128 Programs. SO the Live way of sending CC is good for the program number. In Patch & Performance mode you have access to all banks/sub Banks/programs, and here Live fails sending Bank/Sub Bank but is able to send a program change. So If I'm in bank 80, sub bank 0 program 29 and send a control change for bank 81 subbank 1 program 100 the units switches to program 100 but bank remains 80 and subbsank remains 0.
BTW I have found that Live transmits CC only when arming the track (session view) or playing the clip.

Does it make sense to you?

Pasha
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Pasha
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
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Post by Pasha » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:11 am

Now I own a full Live 5.0.3, it happens as well. Still no program change here.
Any news ? :(
Apple iMac 2013 / MacMini M1
Live 11 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, GP10, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

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