Problem : Live 6 Sync Hardware

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Chouch21
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:55 pm

Any news ?

Post by Chouch21 » Mon May 21, 2007 10:23 am

Hi !

I'm back ...

My problem of synchronization still there with the latest versions of live.
Especially when using arpegiattors of my different Synths. A lot of users complaining about the sync of their seq that can be resolved by a good delay compensation. I thing it's ok for that.

But what about the variation of the clock ?

The case :
- Using a Nord Rack or a microkorg with their arpeggio ON (synced with clock of live as master).
- Playing via Live with a keyboard. Recording notes and playing the Note from Live

At this time what I know :
- It's synced when Playing notes via my Keyboard thru Live.
- Not synced when playing notes FROM live. (sometimes synced, sometimes not)

The (hypothetical) conclusions :
- Live can't manage sending notes + sending clock thru the same "midi Out"
- It seems the clock varies aleatory.

(Tested with different sound cards, different computers and different midi interface.)

My temp solutions :
- Sending clock and Note thru an old Alesis MMT 8 which seems not to take care of fluctuations of the tempo.
- Cubase as master and Live as slave rewired and let manage the Midi via Cubase

Hope this will help you remaking the same situation ...

(ps : sorry for my english)

gomi
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Post by gomi » Mon May 28, 2007 2:24 am

bensuthers wrote:it can't be fixed with an offset.

it makes the internal sequencers in my Nord Modular and the Machine Drum drift.

I get a better result simply pressing start on both at the same time.

this happens internally too if you are syncing a reason session with your live session.

they drift out of sync.

Chouch21
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:55 pm

Post by Chouch21 » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:21 am

Please Please fix this for the next issue of Live. :cry:

lunabass
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Post by lunabass » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:53 am

Did version 6.07 fix this sync issue for you guys?
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lunabass
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Post by lunabass » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:54 pm

for that matter what about 6.0.9?
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neuromyth
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me too

Post by neuromyth » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:41 pm

I have this problem too when using any virtual synths and i use ( VANGUARD,ALBINO,RAPTURE,NEXUS and a few others )

here's a pic...ZOOMED IN

http://rave.ca/?g=full&i=203073


I get this ALOT..basicly every synths,and my partner does aswell and he uses a pc as i am on a mac.
frank

musicmachine
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:40 pm

Post by musicmachine » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:49 pm

lunabass wrote:Did version 6.07 fix this sync issue for you guys?
Not 6.07 but i'm going to try 6.09 later :|

keller-kind
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:02 pm

Post by keller-kind » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:19 pm

hey guys...

i just bought ableton 6 and updated to 6.0.9 on pC

i got lots of problems syncing or triggering external hardware.

i'm using a PC with win XP SP2 (new installed 2 hours ago)

m -audio audiophile firewire interface (using the midi interfaces) and a novation remote zero SL
when i sync my machinedrum oder rs7000. the tempo i applied to 130bpm is jumping around between 124 and 135 or so. just as mentioned in the FAQs. i tried about every buffer setting possible with this interface... doesnt work :( got some ideas? i have a gig on saturday :(

keller-kind
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Post by keller-kind » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:30 am

heyho guys,

it seems my problem is solved ..


thats what we did:


laptops with ableton 6.0.9 are both midi clock slave
midi clock master is my yamaha rs7000.

AND we don't use the midi interfaces of our m-audio audiophile firewire.
instead the clock signal arrives at the midi ports of our novation remote zero SL!

with this config it worked yesterday for over 3 hours.

it seems ableton live can't send a good midi clock master signal.


so long

cheers

Frank

lunabass
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Post by lunabass » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:19 pm

cheers frank.

seems workarounds are the order of the day when it comes to syncing hardware with live.

i really hope they fix these problems soon
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musicmachine
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Post by musicmachine » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:27 am

glad you found a workaround frank.I'll try that myself when i'm recording.What do you think the difference is between the soundcard and remote that affects the sync?

musicmachine
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Post by musicmachine » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:54 pm

Yep seems to be working here :)

Sending master clock from RS7000 to live via remote zero and then midi from remote to EMX :D

It seems part of the problem lies with the audio interface,when i was sending master clock through the saffire le i was getting tempo fluctuations;at first i thought it might be a fault with the RS but now sending it through the remote it jumps initally from 127bpm to 130 but then returns to 127 and stays there :D

So it seems like an issue with the interface at this point :?

ilantz
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:36 am

Post by ilantz » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:50 am

hi,

i've been able to get 2 pc's synced in with as close as it gets (as far as i've managed to test it just now its 3am..) 1 computer is rme hammerfall & the other is m-audio fw 410..(ill try to get another rme for the test..)

here's the midi-ox patch explained .. (round 1)

"master computer" - running midi-ox & midi yoke :
- sends out mtc+clock , using 3 outputs.
output midi yoke 1 just mtc (i've filtered out the clock & sysex) 24fps smpte.
output midi yoke 1 just clock & sysex (i've filtered out the mtc).
and last one real midi out to the other computer.. (with nothing filtered).

"slave computer" - running midi-ox & midi yoke :
- receives mtc+clock on the real input.
- output midi yoke 1 just mtc (i've filtered out the clock & sysex) 24fps smpte.
output midi yoke 1 just clock & sysex (i've filtered out the mtc).

that's all for midi-ox.

in ableton it's pretty much self explainable..
- master listens to midi yoke input 1 for mtc @ 24fps. & clock on midi yoke 2.
- slave listens to midi yoke input 1 for mtc @ 24fps. & clock on midi yoke 2.

that's it for now.. hope to get another rme for the test, i still need to adjust some midi clock negative delay value on slave & run it out longer..

c'ya for now. (hope i posted in the right place..) :)

ilantz
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:36 am

Post by ilantz » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:22 am

..update.

i've managed to get my hand on another rme.
i had no bnc cable to try and work the sync between the two interfaces.

midi clock sync was "okay" .. i guess for a few minutes or less, depends on the load etc...

anyways this just does not work. i've given up :(

not with ableton as master, not as midi-ox as master (midi clock OR mtc) , not as remote sl as master midi clock.

hope the crew will come up with some wizard material soon, i bet their up to somthing.

shana tova to all !


NOTE!!! : http://www.djsounds.com/category/dj_vj_ ... ela/page/2 << this just solved the "how to" , but in practice its quite annoying..but absolotly SOLID !

The III Man
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:21 pm
Location: UK

FYI my rant to ableton

Post by The III Man » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:40 am

Dear Ableton,

I know you have plenty of emails regarding MIDI SYNC but I want to let you know much situation say whats going on and also say how gutting it is as my first EP is due out soon, I desperately want to create an interesting Live set and I simply cant trust the software unless all i do is play off the laptop and that is just rather dull to watch.

SETUP:

PC (very quick) running Ableton 6 (.03 at the mo)
Edirol FA 66 external soundcard via firewire.
ELECTRIBE EMX

PROBLEM:

I am aware of the other sync issues discussed and understand issues of latency , delay and all that. However when I slave the electribe and run patterns either from ableton midi clips, or preprogrammed into the electribe I can sync to the 8th of every beat. I.e in my 1 bar of 16ths
1,3,5,7,9....15 will be in sync. So I can play techno with the kick and snare generally being in time. However anything on the 2,4,6... of the beat such as a constant hihat develops its own and erratic swing and is very loose to the extent it really throws the feeling of the beat.

TROUBLE SHOOTING.

I have ensured all parameters such as swing are disabled etc.

It is not the soundcard because using the exact same hardware setup, midi drivers etc I can use midiox to run the tempo clock and the electribe works perfectly. The 16ths work etc

It doesnt seem to relate to cpu usage as even if I ease the load it isnt reliable.

It is constant. At no point does it ever get in for a solid period.

Is your Midi resolution only on eights??? I know midi is not the best technoogy however as I am sure you appreciate with Ableton constructed to use Live this is a pretty massive problem. Please help me resolve it or I dont know how I will play live, particualrly as all my music is made using Ableton!!

One possible solution/work around, I can perceive for those with midi issues is to run both ableton and hardware as slave to something such as midiox or even the hardware, but in my mind this totally defeats the joy of using ableton.

PLEASE can you look directly into helping me resolve this as currently my live set is not going to be possible. And as a whole surely the midi sync issues that pervade the community must make you think that new deisgn features such as video are great fun for the few who use them but this has got to take priority??

Thanks for listening and I look forward to hearing from you.

yours

toby

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