Ableton Forum

I am having some CPU usage problems using Ableton Live 7.0.5.

At first it seemed a problem with the Analog virtual instrument. I loaded the demo set located in the library "\Lessons\1-Live Basics Category\1-A Tour of Live Lessons\Ableton Suite Demo.als". I noticed that when I play that set, if the "Pad" track is enabled (the track is using Analog with the "Mellow Notch" preset), audio is completely distorted, the CPU usage rises above 80%, then the GUI refresh stops and the PC becomes completely unresponsice. I cannot stop playback using the keyboard, the mouse or the remote control surface (Yamaha S90 ES). I have to reset the PC in order to take control of it again.

If i disable the "Pad" track, playback is much better, with few artifacts. It is still not perfect (one could not record a studio-grade track or face a live performance) but it is accettable. There are still some clicks. The CPU usage is about 50-60%. The "Bass" track in the "Ableton Suite Demo" set is using the Analog virtual instrument as well, with the "Analog Bass" preset, but does not give the same problem. So it seems that if fewer notes are played using Analog, there are no CPU overload problems.

When playback is stopped, if I play the Analog "Mellow Notch" preset live (using a MIDI keyboard) audio output is fine. There are no artifacts even if I play 8-note chords. The CPU usage is about 50-60%. Here, again, playing fewer overall notes there are no CPU overload problems.

The problem (distorted audio and unresponsive PC) is the same using different soundcards and different driver types: ASIO on mLAN, ASIO on M-Audio and MME/DirectX on M-Audio. Increasing the ASIO buffer size won't help either.

In order to optimize the PC I followed the advice in both Tascam's and Tarekith's guides on optimizing Windows XP for audio. Even after optimizing there was no improvement though.

After some more searching in the forum, I downloaded the Tarekith's performance test (Discussions and Results) in order to assess my PC performance.

The test, when run, gives the same problems as above (distorted audio and unresponsive PC) even if I play only two tracks (and there is no Analog virtual instrument playing at this time). So it should be a CPU usage problem. When I play only two tracks the system is not completely unresponsive. I still can stop Live using the mouse, the PC keyboard or from the remote control surface. The CPU usage figure, before the GUI freezes, is about 200%. When playing more tracks the PC becomes completely unresponsive, as in the above example. The CPU usage figure, before the GUI freezes, is about 500%.

I think there's something wrong with my PC configuration, but I don't know what. Can you please help figure it out? Thanks for the time spent reading this post.

My setup is:
Pentium 4 2.4 GHz
1 GB RAM
120 + 300 GB 7200 RPM PATA Hard Disks
Ableton Live 7.0.5
Windows XP Pro SP2
M-Audio 410 FireWire
Yamaha S90 ES + Yamaha mLAN

andy.m

playback problems at 50-60% on the ableton meter is par for the course

your computer is aging and you definitely need more ram

2g minimum

I have a p4 2.6 and it doesn't really cut it anymore...

btw you have a long way to go until you set the cpu usage record. I think it's in 5-figures

??

also I am very jealous of your S90 ES

How does one reduce the CPU overload by increasing the amount of installed RAM? (BTW does it make sense 4 GB RAM with 32-bit Windows XP or is 2 GB the maximum?).

My PC is not the newest, but its specifications are still decent. I would not spend more money. I already invested in a Yamaha S90 ES with mLAN (and Ableton Suite).

I don't think XP 32 can see more than 3G

(?)

anyway all I'm saying is that I don't think cpu's as slow as ours have even been manufactured for a long time...

maybe you're looking at the "minimum requirements" which are proven to be complete BS

longjohns wrote:I don't think XP 32 can see more than 3G

(?)

That's true for XP Home. XP Pro can utilize the > 3GB switch. It's a moot point, though- your other apps have to be able to access the additional RAM, and as most 32 bit apps aren't using LAA schemes, the most you'll be able to address with most 32 bit apps is 2 GB

@ the original poster- turn off speedstepping and hyperthreading (if your P4 supports HT). Have your power scheme in Windows set to always on. Dump your temp files and defrag regularly.

ew

longjohns wrote:btw you have a long way to go until you set the cpu usage record. I think it's in 5-figures

??

Is there a table/report with all the CPU usage results?

ewistrand wrote: [...] most 32 bit apps aren't using LAA schemes, the most you'll be able to address with most 32 bit apps is 2 GB

Does Ableton Live support more than 2 GB?

longjohns wrote: maybe you're looking at the "minimum requirements" which are proven to be complete BS

My PC meets the minimum requirements:

Windows: 1.5 GHz CPU or faster, 512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended), Windows XP or Windows Vista, Windows compatible sound card (ASIO driver support recommended), QuickTime 6.5 or higher, DVD-ROM drive

What do you mean by BS? BullS***? What would the real minimum requirements be?

ewistrand wrote:

longjohns wrote:I don't think XP 32 can see more than 3G

(?)

That's true for XP Home. XP Pro can utilize the > 3GB switch. It's a moot point, though- your other apps have to be able to access the additional RAM, and as most 32 bit apps aren't using LAA schemes, the most you'll be able to address with most 32 bit apps is 2 GB

@ the original poster- turn off speedstepping and hyperthreading (if your P4 supports HT). Have your power scheme in Windows set to always on. Dump your temp files and defrag regularly.

ew

Wow, ever since winblows 98 really couldn't address more than 64MB until Second Try came out, er, I mean Second Edition, there's been a lot of FUD around this, so here's the three sentence explanation:

A 32bit operating system can only address 2GB of memory, because that's how many memory addresses you get out of 32bits of namespace.

So the workaround is to have the operating system kernel manage all the extra memory by keeping little extra tables of whose memory is where, and then allocating the memory to the programs that need it etc, while managing a table of the mapping of whose "real" address X is actually at address Y.

It's like a valet parking service for memory running about 700 times a second to the garage and back.

So the computer itself can see more memory, lots more, but every individual program can only see 2GB. (there's another split around high and low memory, not a big deal, but realistically it's a bit under 2GB)

So assuming you have an operating system that's not intentionally crippled - i have no idea if what you said about xp home is true, but it rings of it - you can have lots of programs with a maximum of 2GB of memory each.

In real terms, specifically regarding real time audio, that means that you DAW is a) not competing for the memory with other programs because there's enough to go around but also b) can only use 2GB of memory.

Depending on what you're doing, 2GB should be enough for any single program. I only have 2GB in my mac, because that's the max it'll take. The reason I want to put more in is for multi-tasking - so i don't have to close applications - not for absolute performance in a focused situation like playing with live.

So that was this week's installment of "The Fascinating World of Real World Limitations in Technology" (yeah, i know, we're working on a better title) ... hope it wasn't too long winded.

cheers,

chris

andy.m wrote:

longjohns wrote:btw you have a long way to go until you set the cpu usage record. I think it's in 5-figures

??

Is there a table/report with all the CPU usage results?

not that I know of, and this is all a joke anyway - so it doesn't really matter.

meaning, obviously it offers no usable information about relative loads if someone had a readout of 15000% usage. what the hell does that mean

andy.m wrote:

longjohns wrote: maybe you're looking at the "minimum requirements" which are proven to be complete BS

My PC meets the minimum requirements:

Windows: 1.5 GHz CPU or faster, 512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended), Windows XP or Windows Vista, Windows compatible sound card (ASIO driver support recommended), QuickTime 6.5 or higher, DVD-ROM drive

What do you mean by BS? BullS***? What would the real minimum requirements be?

those minimum requirements are just a joke. with a 1.5g single-core processor and 512 RAM, I'd expect you could play back 2-3 audio files at a time, maybe have 1 effect on your whole set..

Probably could play a simpler track or two, but forget even trying to use Analog etc.

How about as a minimum spec:

P4 2.4g (dual core recommended)
1G DDR3200 Ram (2+G recommended)
7200rpm drive (2 drives + SATA 3.0 recommended)
ASIO soundcard REQUIRED
video card w/ onboard DDR recommended

longjohns wrote:Probably could play a simpler track or two, but forget even trying to use Analog etc.

reverb is a killer, as are long delay times.

you can manage the plugins to play nice, just keep an eye on what takes a lot of cpu.