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 Post subject: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:35 pm
Posts: 6
One feature that would be great to have in Ableton is the use of System Audio for output in OSX.

This is great when you use the Sonarworks Reference correction utility. This way you don't have to use it as a plugin but use it as the system audio Plugin which means that you don't have to think about having to put it on as a plugin.

But there is a lot of other functions that would give you benefit if this feature was enabled in the list of Devices since Core Audio is already in use.


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 6716
freisig wrote:
use it as the system audio Plugin

And this does mean what exactly? Where exactly do you expect to be able to plug-in the Sonarworks Reference plug-in? I'm not following. I just put all monitor on the master and use a "Main Buss" as it is now. I export from that buss.

Did you perhaps imagine a post-master plug-in position that exports would ignore? If so, that's a great idea. But there wouldn't be any need to limit this to System audio.

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Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10984
Location: Seattle
freisig wrote:
One feature that would be great to have in Ableton is the use of System Audio for output in OSX.

This is great when you use the Sonarworks Reference correction utility. This way you don't have to use it as a plugin but use it as the system audio Plugin which means that you don't have to think about having to put it on as a plugin.

But there is a lot of other functions that would give you benefit if this feature was enabled in the list of Devices since Core Audio is already in use.

I think you're not completely understanding what OSX System Audio means. An application like Sonarworks isn't going to capture system audio when it's in stand alone, it's going to send a stereo output to System Audio and allow you to assign mics etc. to inputs.. Sonarworks would have to somehow capture the audio going to your system outputs before Live did, so it would be Sonarworks that would have to develop that capability.

I have a solution for you though, I have Sonarworks competitor IK ARC System 2, there's a not too expensive application from Rogue Ameba called Audio Hijack. Audio Hijack can capture any audio going to your stereo output, whether it's sent to the standard audio or in my case the RME here. Audio Hijack can also host Audio Unit plug ins in between. So What I do is set up ARC and some other metering plug ins in Audio Hijack capturing all audio from Live. This means never worrying about printing the "corrected" audio by accident etc.

https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:15 pm 
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Machinesworking wrote:
freisig wrote:
One feature that would be great to have in Ableton is the use of System Audio for output in OSX.

This is great when you use the Sonarworks Reference correction utility. This way you don't have to use it as a plugin but use it as the system audio Plugin which means that you don't have to think about having to put it on as a plugin.

But there is a lot of other functions that would give you benefit if this feature was enabled in the list of Devices since Core Audio is already in use.

I think you're not completely understanding what OSX System Audio means. An application like Sonarworks isn't going to capture system audio when it's in stand alone, it's going to send a stereo output to System Audio and allow you to assign mics etc. to inputs.. Sonarworks would have to somehow capture the audio going to your system outputs before Live did, so it would be Sonarworks that would have to develop that capability.

I have a solution for you though, I have Sonarworks competitor IK ARC System 2, there's a not too expensive application from Rogue Ameba called Audio Hijack. Audio Hijack can capture any audio going to your stereo output, whether it's sent to the standard audio or in my case the RME here. Audio Hijack can also host Audio Unit plug ins in between. So What I do is set up ARC and some other metering plug ins in Audio Hijack capturing all audio from Live. This means never worrying about printing the "corrected" audio by accident etc.

https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/


And that's also the way to go if you want to monitor everything through your correction plugin.

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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:27 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10984
Location: Seattle
[jur] wrote:
And that's also the way to go if you want to monitor everything through your correction plugin.

Absolutely!

I am total sandwich about Rogue Ameba, they discontinued development of Soundflower, (thankfully it still works on my system, so I could use Room EQ Wizard to tune the room before ARC), but Audio Hijack is perfect, and only $59. Their replacement for the free Soundflower is a $99 program called Loopback, that isn't so much of a rip off if you buy it in a bundle with Audio Hijack at $130, though there's no way in hell I'm buying it at $99 after being a very early adopter of Audio Hijack! :x


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:35 pm
Posts: 6
Machinesworking wrote:
I think you're not completely understanding what OSX System Audio means. /


I think you don't understand the meaning of what I'm writing :-)

Sonarworks Reference 4 installs a system version as well that runs all the time so all your audio when playing itunes, Spotify, or any other system audio played is going though that.

So when I use Logic Pro X i don't have to insert the sonar works plugin on the master channel as it's already running in OSX System Audio.

That is because in Logic you can choose "System Audio" and not the you soundcard. By doing so you automatically get the sonarworks calibrated.

In Ableton you can only select the soundcard and not system set audio which means that sound is not runnnig through the system but directly to the selected output on your soundcard which is fine. And I know I can just put the SW Plugin on the master channel but if I could choose the system audio instead then it was already running and I didn't have to insert the plugin.

So Yes I understand it perfectly Mr. Machinesworking!! You just don't understand what I'm writing :-)


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:35 pm
Posts: 6
Stromkraft wrote:
And this does mean what exactly? Where exactly do you expect to be able to plug-in the Sonarworks Reference plug-in? I'm not following. I just put all monitor on the master and use a "Main Buss" as it is now. I export from that buss.

Did you perhaps imagine a post-master plug-in position that exports would ignore? If so, that's a great idea. But there wouldn't be any need to limit this to System audio.


Please read up on the latest version of Sonarworks Reference 4 and you will know what I'm talking about. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10984
Location: Seattle
freisig wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
I think you're not completely understanding what OSX System Audio means. /


I think you don't understand the meaning of what I'm writing :-)

Sonarworks Reference 4 installs a system version as well that runs all the time so all your audio when playing itunes, Spotify, or any other system audio played is going though that.

So when I use Logic Pro X i don't have to insert the sonar works plugin on the master channel as it's already running in OSX System Audio.

That is because in Logic you can choose "System Audio" and not the you soundcard. By doing so you automatically get the sonarworks calibrated.

In Ableton you can only select the soundcard and not system set audio which means that sound is not runnnig through the system but directly to the selected output on your soundcard which is fine. And I know I can just put the SW Plugin on the master channel but if I could choose the system audio instead then it was already running and I didn't have to insert the plugin.

So Yes I understand it perfectly Mr. Machinesworking!! You just don't understand what I'm writing :-)

OK opening up Logic here I see what you're talking about. Yeah, that's specifically a Logic feature. No other DAW I know of allows that. Your solution is still what I mentioned, and I wouldn't hold your breath waiting around for Ableton to implement it. I actually cannot think of any OS specific feature Ableton have implemented? so your best bet is spend the $59 on Audio Hijack. The upside is Audio Hijack also allows you to record audio from literally anything on your system.


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 6716
freisig wrote:
Please read up on the latest version of Sonarworks Reference 4 and you will know what I'm talking about. :-)


Seriously? That's YOUR job. Then explain.

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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 6716
Machinesworking wrote:
I actually cannot think of any OS specific feature Ableton have implemented?


What about different audio interfaces for audio in/out? That's macOS only.

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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15624
Location: The Wild West
Stromkraft wrote:
freisig wrote:
Please read up on the latest version of Sonarworks Reference 4 and you will know what I'm talking about. :-)


Seriously? That's YOUR job. Then explain.

@ Stromkraft - is your goal here to fill up the thread with petty arguments until anyone reading, including the OP, shies away from chiming in to avoid mind wrestling with you?

or... are you just trying to be an obtuse know-it-all?

just asking because i'm wondering how much effort you plan to put into telling the guy something can't be done while he has an example of an application that can do it.

IMO your desire to be right outweighs your desire to be helpful; which is why you insist on acting like an asshole under the guise of 'helping users' so frequently.

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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10984
Location: Seattle
H20nly wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
freisig wrote:
Please read up on the latest version of Sonarworks Reference 4 and you will know what I'm talking about. :-)


Seriously? That's YOUR job. Then explain.

@ Stromkraft - is your goal here to fill up the thread with petty arguments until anyone reading, including the OP, shies away from chiming in to avoid mind wrestling with you?

or... are you just trying to be an obtuse know-it-all?

just asking because i'm wondering how much effort you plan to put into telling the guy something can't be done while he has an example of an application that can do it.

IMO your desire to be right outweighs your desire to be helpful; which is why you insist on acting like an asshole under the guise of 'helping users' so frequently.

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Kind of have to agree with H20only here, you’re even arguing with me about things in this thread?? To your question, how much code has to be written to ‘allow’ core audio to adress two separate parts of the audio chain? Especially considering Ableton hands off audio card handling to Core Audio on OSX and ASIO on Windows... my guess is a big fat zero.


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
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Let’s keep it civil please, no need to derail the thread any more.

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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:35 pm
Posts: 6
Machinesworking wrote:
Kind of have to agree with H20only here, you’re even arguing with me about things in this thread?? To your question, how much code has to be written to ‘allow’ core audio to adress two separate parts of the audio chain? Especially considering Ableton hands off audio card handling to Core Audio on OSX and ASIO on Windows... my guess is a big fat zero.


You very well be right but I'm wishing and requesting anyway.

But thank you for your kind words. I actually have Audio HiJack so I know that I could to like you say but the other way would just be a great feature. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: The use of OS X system audio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10984
Location: Seattle
freisig wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
Kind of have to agree with H20only here, you’re even arguing with me about things in this thread?? To your question, how much code has to be written to ‘allow’ core audio to adress two separate parts of the audio chain? Especially considering Ableton hands off audio card handling to Core Audio on OSX and ASIO on Windows... my guess is a big fat zero.


You very well be right but I'm wishing and requesting anyway.

But thank you for your kind words. I actually have Audio HiJack so I know that I could to like you say but the other way would just be a great feature. :-)

For sure it would be cool, but I really like having monitoring plug ins outside of Live, especially ones that are on the master bus! Master bus plug ins tend to be big cpu pigs! I put an analyzer, ARC, and Tonal Balance Controll in Audio Hijack, big pigs in Live. :)


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