Splitting/dividing midi notes

Share what you’d like to see added to Ableton Live.
jonljacobi
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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by jonljacobi » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:03 pm

I was just trying this, and while the notes split to the beginning when you consolidate the clip, for some reason, they don't split at the correct location so that they will actually play. I would definitely vote for this being fixed/changed so that the notes will actually start at the beginning of the clip and play.

I also don't understand why they don't just extend the CTRL/CMD + E split command to the MIDI editor. That would be far more consistent.

LKHD
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:39 am

Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by LKHD » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:13 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:03 pm
I was just trying this, and while the notes split to the beginning when you consolidate the clip, for some reason, they don't split at the correct location so that they will actually play. I would definitely vote for this being fixed/changed so that the notes will actually start at the beginning of the clip and play.

I also don't understand why they don't just extend the CTRL/CMD + E split command to the MIDI editor. That would be far more consistent.
Agreed, CTRL/CMD + E should function in the MIDI editor.

tomgulbinas
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Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by tomgulbinas » Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:51 am

This has been one of the most frustrating things about switching over from FL Studio. The piano roll in general is lacking in lots of ways and is due for an update.

jonljacobi
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Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:42 am

I far prefer Live's editor to FL Studio's and I own both. Give Live some time and learn its ways. But now that they've changed the tabs from horizontal to vertical, there's a lot more room for other stuff should they decide to implement it.

jlgrimes
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Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:18 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:42 am
I far prefer Live's editor to FL Studio's and I own both. Give Live some time and learn its ways. But now that they've changed the tabs from horizontal to vertical, there's a lot more room for other stuff should they decide to implement it.
I agree.

I own FL Studio as well and it does have some cool Piano Roll functions, other DAWS lack, it just doesn't seem anywhere as intuitive as Ableton's.


Ableton is my favorite "simple" piano roll. For doing Drums, it has a pretty fast workflow, a minimal toolset that IMO helps speed things up.

In FL, I found it very tedious having to change tools every time to select a note, new tool to draw a note, new tool to delete a note. Ableton pretty much can do all of this with standard select tool. A chop function would be cool in Ableton, but I get by with draw tool and ability to quickly change grid size with Ctrl 1 and 2 commands. I'm surprised at the number of other DAWS that do not easily implement this time saving feature. I believe FL grid size is zoom based.

Lokan
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by Lokan » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:25 am

jlgrimes wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:18 am
In FL, I found it very tedious having to change tools every time to select a note, new tool to draw a note, new tool to delete a note. Ableton pretty much can do all of this with standard select tool. A chop function would be cool in Ableton, but I get by with draw tool and ability to quickly change grid size with Ctrl 1 and 2 commands. I'm surprised at the number of other DAWS that do not easily implement this time saving feature. I believe FL grid size is zoom based.
In FL, Grid adjustment is missing but, why would you delete with delete tool while you can right click on notes to delete it with pencil tool. It's much easiser than double clicking. Pretty much everything can be done with pencil tool.

jlgrimes
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Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by jlgrimes » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:59 pm

Lokan wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:25 am
jlgrimes wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:18 am
In FL, I found it very tedious having to change tools every time to select a note, new tool to draw a note, new tool to delete a note. Ableton pretty much can do all of this with standard select tool. A chop function would be cool in Ableton, but I get by with draw tool and ability to quickly change grid size with Ctrl 1 and 2 commands. I'm surprised at the number of other DAWS that do not easily implement this time saving feature. I believe FL grid size is zoom based.
In FL, Grid adjustment is missing but, why would you delete with delete tool while you can right click on notes to delete it with pencil tool. It's much easiser than double clicking. Pretty much everything can be done with pencil tool.
I guess I haven't been really trained on it properly. I have a partner producer who uses FL Studio and sometimes I sense certain times there are more efficient ways of doing things in the piano roll but I guess I haven't put the time into its piano roll like I did with Ableton's.

That said Ableton's minimalistic piano roll is so simple that it required very little training. And coming from Reason and Sonar, I apprieciated Ableton's piano Roll over both of those.

Reason's was simple and not powerful (although version 11 finally added in a split tool after like almost 20 years of begging), where Sonar's was powerful but not always to most easiest to use. Ableton's had a mix of simple and power that I enjoyed.

1. Note muting (first piano roll I had that could do this)
2. Fold tool (took awhile to appreciate this but great when needing to see every note you played in.)
3. Quick grid changing functions (Haven't found a DAW quicker than this without having to setup custom actions in like Reaper).
4. Very smooth and easy to understand zooming function (I'll admit Ableton is probably not the most powerful here but IMO generally fast and easy to learn).
5. Clip duplicate/reverse/invert (simple but effective tools for remixing stuff and buidling parts)
6. Curved envelopes and envelope editing in general (Ableton used to suck here big time but has made tremendous improvements here).



That said though, Ableton is one of the few DAWs now without even a basic note split function while many other DAWs such as FL Studio have more complex divide functions now, I'm not sure why this is being overlooked, Ctrl+E could just be implemented to acheive this but maybe there is more to it. Or even a new button that says "Divide" and pressing that but would divide your selected notes based off of Grid settings. M4L actually has a divide tool that supposed to work like FL Studio's chop tool but it would be nice to get this without needing M4L.



That said over the years, Ableton has been doing a good job at handling alot of their "Elephant in the Room" omissions. Comping, Session View Automation, MPE, VST3, Curved Automation, Automation Shapes, I'm guessing someone at Ableton headquarters realize their piano roll is one of the only piano rolls without even a basic split function. I'm guessing while they could easily add a basic function, they might be looking at really doing an overhaul of the Piano Roll itself and giving it some more powerful features. It makes sense now that they added Scales, MPE editing that users will want more sophisticated editing functions. That said an overhaul would be a controverisial update as many Ableton users have been using the basic one for over 10 years and would possibly need to "unlearn" some things and "learn" alot of other things which would be hectic, so they are probably really looking into how to do a good overhaul but making the transition as "painless" as possible. One thing they could do though is just "expand it" by keeping much of it the same but enhancing the GUI a bit and enhancing M4L to allow for user created tools (one gripe about M4L is that everything needs to be a "device", it would be cool if M4L could create more of a "tool" which takes up less space and such)., so many of these things would end up created by users anyways, giving a sort of Reaperish/Studio One workflow of being able to add custom tools/macros to piano roll to add more esoteric tools that allow users to customize whats important. Ableton already have a pretty good foundation here, they would need to still be careful of not Reaperfying the DAW but I'd think a better keybinding system and more customizations would be generally appreciated overall, especially if done right.

distant_floats
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Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by distant_floats » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:13 pm

+1
I just wanted to split a note, how simple is that

Trensharo
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:56 pm

Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by Trensharo » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:07 am

tomgulbinas wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:29 am
We shouldn't have to use a workaround for something so basic. Ableton's midi editor, in general, is trailing behind FL Studio's and this is one of the biggest reasons I hear for people being reluctant to switch over. Letting us split notes would definitely be a step in the right direction.
Not just FL Studio's... 90% of other DAWs on the market.

Ableton's Piano Roll feels only marginally better than ACID Pro's (which also had lock-to-scale over a decade ago).

It's the worst thing about the DAW, and it singlehandedly zeroes out a lot of the other productivity gains you get from using Ableton over other production software.

I like the software's core user experience, and the workflow is nice. The hardware support is amazing. However, once I have to edit MIDI it feels borderline unusable. It is just so much worse than DAWs like Cubase, Studio One, Cakewalk by BandLab or even Samplitude Pro X. It feels like I'm using ACID Pro 8 or something like that. I am about 500% faster Editing MIDI in multiple other DAWs - so I've already shelved Live for the time being.

I can't with the people here acting as if lacking some of the most basic functions in the MIDI editor is somehow virtuous. How is it faster to Manually Shorten Notes and then draw in more notes, than pressing Modifier + LMB? Changing tools in most DAWs I've used is like... ONE BUTTON... and many of them have smart tools that do it automatically for the most basic facilities.

Not going to lie, if I had bothered to check for this (I didn't, why would most people think something like this wouldn't be there), I probably would have gotten Bitwig Studio instead.

I might sell the Live Suite license as a massive discount just to switch to that, frankly. If anyone wants to trade licenses, let me know.

jonljacobi
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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Splitting/dividing midi notes

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:41 pm

Thanks for being honest, but no one said lacking basic features is virtuous. That's your take. To me and quite a few others, there are no missing "basic" features. Live is different in its approach so if you fight it and try to "make it fit", you're going to have a tough time. There's an s-load of people who come on here and complain that there's some feature missing that they're used to without trying to understand what's going on or learn and adapt to the methods that are already in place. Most times, there's an alternative, and it might even be quicker than what you're used to.

It took me three trials of Live before I finally ditched my expectations and just learned how to use it. Now I find everything else inefficient.

Back to the topic at hand. Personally, not once have I ever had or felt the need to split a note. I draw and duplicate if I need quick repetitions. More likely I'll simply play them in to begin with. I'm also not sure why you think Bitwig's piano roll is so much better. I like it fine, but it generates many of the same complaints that Live's does.

All that aside, simply for the sake of consistency throughout the program, I've upvoted using CTRL/CMD-e for splitting notes. Consistency of implementation is one thing I think Live could use more of.

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