More precision over tempo map

[lapieuvre]

Hi,

I'm looking to get more precision with the tempo map...

Right now Ableton only has 2 digits after the dot, while Logic or Pro Tools have 4 digits precision in the tempo automation lane.

The result is when you import a midi file from those 2 DAWs, the imported tracks do not align with the grid if there are accelerandos/rallentendos...

Is there a way to improve the precision of the tempo to 4 digits in Live ? I was thinking of maybe using the Options.txt file

A command like : -TempoFineControlRange

Any ideas ?

Thanks

[[jur]]

The result is when you import a midi file from those 2 DAWs, the imported tracks do not align with the grid if there are accelerandos/rallentendos...

Live can deal with tempo curves, so that's only happening when you reach a fixed tempo value, right?

[lapieuvre]

Live can deal with tempo curves,

Yes but with a precision of 2 decimals -> so 100 bpm, 100.32, 100.67, 101, etc...

In Logic those values would be 100 bpm, 100.3246, 100.6735, 101, etc...

So those little imprecisions make it that after 2-3 minutes of music, the imported tracks are not on the grid anymore.

Especially when there are a lot of tempo curves...

[[jur]]

Yes I did get your point, but I'm just saying that it should only be a problem for "non-curved" tempo changes, right? When a value is straight, before or after a curve.
Unfortunately, as you know Live only deals with 2 point digits, so for the time being the only solution would be to make sure that you're using rounded values in Logic.
And I'm moving this to the Feature Wishlist.

[lapieuvre]

Yes I did get your point, but I'm just saying that it should only be a problem for "non-curved" tempo changes, right? When a value is straight, before or after a curve.
Unfortunately, as you know Live only deals with 2 point digits, so for the time being the only solution would be to make sure that you're using rounded values in Logic.
And I'm moving this to the Feature Wishlist.

Correct !

And yes, this is definetly a feature wishlist

[pottering]

I think Live's BPM goes down to 5 decimals.

I tested with phase inversion and 2 instances of the same audio loop (93 BPM), one unwarped and another set to Warp Re-pitch.

When I typed 93.000001 or lower it stayed nulled, when I typed 93.00001 it broke the null (-72 dB).

When I typed 93.000001 again, it nulled again, showing with 6 decimals (or more) it rounds to 5 decimals (rounds down if the number is lower than 5, I guess).

When I typed 93.000009, it broke the null, showing it rounds up (to 93.00001, I assume) when the number is higher than 5 (well, not sure it is exactly 5).

Most number boxes in Live can use more decimals than are visible (usually only 2), another example is EQ Eight.

Though honestly they could do a better job of showing the real values, like showing the true value in the Status Bar when a number box is selected or hovered.

OBS: Of course you can type values for breakpoints in the Song Tempo automation, with Edit Value option.

[lapieuvre]

I think Live's BPM goes down to 5 decimals.

I tested with phase inversion and 2 instances of the same audio loop (93 BPM), one unwarped and another set to Warp Re-pitch.

When I typed 93.000001 or lower it stayed nulled, when I typed 93.00001 it broke the null (-72 dB).

When I typed 93.000001 again, it nulled again, showing with 6 decimals (or more) it rounds to 5 decimals (rounds down if the number is lower than 5, I guess).

When I typed 93.000009, it broke the null, showing it rounds up (to 93.00001, I assume) when the number is higher than 5 (well, not sure it is exactly 5).

Most number boxes in Live can use more decimals than are visible (usually only 2), another example is EQ Eight.

Though honestly they could do a better job of showing the real values, like showing the true value in the Status Bar when a number box is selected or hovered.

OBS: Of course you can type values for breakpoints in the Song Tempo automation, with Edit Value option.

There are too many values un tempo curves to be able to type them all.

I don't think it's a huge programming thing to add 2 decimals to their tempo mapping...

The reason I need this feature, is because when I want to transfer a composer's session to Ableton, for playback purposes, the stems need to be on the grid/click.

There is a band playing with pre-recorded tracks...

My workaround is to go inside logic and round every tempo value to 2 decimals. Then I export the midi file and stems, and import them inside Live.

[pottering]

The Tempo already goes to 5 decimals.

When it goes from 92 to 93 it passes from 92.00000 to 92.00001 to 92.00002, etc. automatically, no need to "type them all".

Again, just because the auto-detected BPM for a stem only shows 2 decimals it doesn't mean Live is not using more decimals than visible. I tested this too in a similar manner to my previous reply here.

[lapieuvre]

See after 3 small rallentendos, i'm already off the grid.

I imported a midi file from Logic and lose the grid pretty quickly. Logic has 4 decimals, Live has 2 in the tempo map.

[pottering]

To me that looks like just a visual quirk of Live's transient detection, that you can see in almost any Audio Clip set to Warp.

Or that tempo automation is not actually from a Tempo Leader Clip (without using Unfollow Tempo Automation it is grey/white, not orange/red).

EDIT: "MIDI file"? Does Live even export/import tempo with MIDI files? I thought it only got time signature from MIDI files.

[lapieuvre]

It imports the tempo AND time signature. This is the whole point of this thread.

Though it doesn't import tempo maps from Logic or Pro Tools correctly, due to the 2 decimals / 4 decimals difference.

After a few rallentendos, it is not so bad, as you can see in the previous screen shot, but in a long piece with a lot of tempo curves, it just doesn't work anymore. The grid gets lost.

[jonljacobi]

Cripes. I can barely detect a single whole number change, let alone four decimals.

[pottering]

Thought Live could not import tempo maps (it can't export them), my bad, sorry about the confusion.