Multiple VST folders

Share what you’d like to see added to Ableton Live.
Rainstorm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by Rainstorm » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:18 am

Suggestion 1...
If you do not want to clutter the preferences - plug-ins screen then add a one line option for "use 'plug-ins folder locations.txt' with an on/off. Its a text file situated in root folder (or elsewhere) of ableton live. If the option is set to on ableton live will search the text file which will have one line entries, a new entry on each new line which are folder locations, directory structures, that wil be used to search for plugins.

Suggestion 2...
The folders in ableton live Categories (Plug-Ins) can stay the same but in the right panel next to it under Name have a more detailed folder stricture...
32Bit -> VST -> Generators
32Bit -> VST -> Effects
32Bit -> VST3 -> Generators
32Bit -> VST3 -> Effects
64Bit -> VST -> Generators
64Bit -> VST -> Effects
64Bit -> VST3 -> Generators
64Bit -> VST3 -> Effects
*You can bridge the 32 bit plugins if you want to since ableton live is not 64bit. And vice versa.
*You do not need to differentiate between stock ableton live plugins and user installed ones because ableton live keeps those in Instruments and audio effects/midi effects categories.

If you wanted to use Instrument instead of generator thats cool
If you want to i8nclude both midi effects and audio effects thats cool
same with drums
You could use the existing categories even and just add a top level folder under name for 32bit & 64bit then VST & VST3 etc

Or do this the best way you can invision it.

People have lots of VSTs these days.

Rainstorm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by Rainstorm » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:21 am

If Fruity Loops can scan all installed plugins and work out automatically whether they go into either Generator or Effect folders, then so can ableton live work this out.

It would keep things tidy when you have tons of plugins

DJ Tequila
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:30 am

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by DJ Tequila » Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:24 pm

This feature request has become much more urgent.

I was previously able to get around the lack of multiple custom VST folders by using Windows shortcuts. Live 11.1 has stopped following shortcuts.

So:

I install a plugin.
It doesn't give me a choice of where to install and installs somewhere odd.
Live doesn't pick it up in the default or custom folders.

What do I do? Move it from the installed location? That could theoretically cause issues depending on the plugin. Make a copy? It's a waste of SSD space and future updates won't work. I'm out of good options and I have to go for something nasty.

Please! Give us multiple VST folders or give us shortcuts back!

Manhippo
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:52 am

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by Manhippo » Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:11 pm

Oh wow, this is incredibly frustrating.

For all the people going 'just put them all in one folder', you clearly aren't using NI Komplete. NI's ecosystem wants it's plugins installed in the NI program files folder, and moving them around leads to endless issues and version mismatches. The only workable solution is to keep all of the NI stuff in its default location.

So I guess you could put all of your vst2 plugs into the NI folder, but then all of the exisiting routing to other daws gets messed up.

Ableton not having the ability to look in multiple folders is wierd, but it's always been like that. But taking away something so simple and so functional is really odd. Can anyone tell me why they would even bother doing that? What's the gain from removing a feature like this?

Anyone know where I can download Live 10 again? My account now only lists live 11 versions.

Mark Williams
Posts: 898
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:02 pm

VST3s are installed in a system defined VST3 folder as per VST3 standards anyway.
As with VST2's well sooner or later its going to become a diminshing problem anyway, as VST2 is no longer supported by Steinberg, more and more developers, will sooner or later have to make their plugins VST3 versions only with VST2 being phased out.

In the meantime, good housekeeping/file mamagement is your best option, and yes I do use NI plugins and they are installed in my folder as per my preferences within Native Access.
Live 11, M1 Mac Mini, Push 2, Scarlett 18i20 & ADA8200, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12, Hydrasynth, Cobalt 8M, Moog Subsequent 25, IK Uno Synth Pro, Plethora X3, Nord Drum 3P

gabaghoul
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by gabaghoul » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:47 am

I cant seem to get the shortcut trick to work. I created a folder in Program Files called All VST Plugins and dropped the shortcuts to the all my VST plugins on my PC in that folder and then set the directory path in Ableton . Then I tried to scan the folder for plugins and it came back with nothing.

Tried this with Native Instruments, Arturia and XLN Audio. The other time Ableton can see them is when I point specifically the the folder with the DLLs. Whats the secret to creating a proper shortcut that works? I'm in Windows 11 BTW.

John

H20nly
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by H20nly » Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:19 am

@gabaghoul - It might not work with VST3 and/or Live 11. I’m not sure. I have VST2 turned off in Preferences and have chosen to let it go. We were using the shortcuts in and prior to 2016 when the thread was started (Live 8/9). I’ve kinda ditched one off plugins, but my Mac installed all my Waves, AAS, iZotope, Softube, Arturia, Heaviocity, Klanghelm, Soundspot, and Celemony stuff without issue - indexed by Live and in the browser.

@you guys whining about us offering a working solution 6 years ago, and 2-3 Live versions prior, that doesn’t work for you today ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We used the tools we had
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

H20nly
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by H20nly » Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:51 pm

I just want to add to this thread and say that I got a brand new M1 Mac. I set everything up from scratch over the weekend. Without changing a single default setting, I installed the following plugins:

iZotope (and Exponential Audio*) entire suite
Komplete 13 Ultimate
Toontrack - Superior Drummer 3
Softube - Tube Delay and Spring Reverb
Celemony - Melodyne
Applied Acoustics Systems - Sting Studio VS-2 and VS-3
Arturia - Analog IV and V and more than a dozen others

All of them showed up in a fresh install of Live 11 and all of them work exactly as expected. I only enabled AU and VST3 in Live’s preferences and used no custom folders. I later turned off VST3 because I decided I don’t need the clutter, hassle, and resource hit (since M1 silicon already requires Rosetta for non-native supported plugins). For the NI and iZotope downloads/installs I used Native Access and iZotope Product Portal, respectively.

*Exponential Audio presented the option to deselect AAX, VST2, VST3, and Audio Units. For these 11 plugins I only installed the AU version. All other settings were left as default.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

J_R
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 11:49 pm

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by J_R » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:10 am

Following applies to all plug-ins except samples

Note:
.dll is the file extension for VST2 files on Windows. So, any folder designated for VST2 plug-ins must only contain .dll files. This is distinguished from .vst3, which is the file extension for VST3 plug-ins. .dll and .vst3 file types should not reside in the same folder.


(Per Preferences/Plug-Ins)
  • Ableton installs VST3 Plug-Ins located in "System Folders" [On/Off]
    • - System Folders = multiple folders?
      - Windows 10 questions: What are Windows 'System Folders'? Where are the Windows System Folders?
      Googled 'where are windows 10 system folders?' and got 'About 75,000,000 results...the first two pages of which are fairly incoherent'
  • Ableton installs VST3 Plug-Ins located in "Custom Folder ( (Browse) designate location of Plug-In Folder )"
    • - Custom folder should be on the System Drive (C-Drive) for best operation (Samples don't need to be.)
I would very much like to employ Shortcuts as a way to organize plug-in placement. (Ensuring that the files the shortcuts refer to are, like the shortcuts, on the C-Drive)

Another way to organize lug-ins might be to place a group (e.g., from a particular third party) in a sub-folder of the specified VST3 Plug-in Custom folder, but I don't know if Ableton treats all sub folders as 'plug-in accessible' folders.

Questions
  • - What/Where are Windows System Folders?"
    - Can VST3 Plug-ins be put in multiple 'System' folders?
    - Can VST3 Plug-Ins be put into a designated VST3 Custom Folder AND its (multiple) sub-folders?

kapdad
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:40 pm

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by kapdad » Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:41 pm

I'm new to Ableton, after having used several other DAWs over the course of decades.

Not having multiple VST folders assigned in Preferences is RIDICULOUS. It's embarrassing.

J_R
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 11:49 pm

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by J_R » Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:06 am

Windows System Folders: Because the location of Windows System folders is a mystery, it's probably best to stick to a Windows Custom Folder location so you know where the file(s) in question reside.

Shortcuts: It is my understanding that the whole using-shortcuts to clarify, manage and spread plug-in, pack, etc. entries more neatly (and get the added bonus of being able to remove a shortcut to have Ableton temporarily remove the file that shortcut refers to, used to work before Live10 but doesn't work any more. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Custom Folders: Currently Ableton Preferences allows you to specify the location of the:
  • File Folder (Preference category)
    • Sample Editor (don't know what's stored in this location)
    • Temporary Folder (also don't know what's stored in this location)
  • Library
    • Location of User Library
    • Installation Folder for Packs
  • Plug-Ins
    • VST2 Plug-In Custom Folder
    • VST3 Plug-In Custom Folder
It is my understanding you can subdivide entries in each folder by arranging them in subfolders of the main directories (Sample E, Temp, User Lib, VST2, VST3).

MallorcaMalle
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:35 am

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by MallorcaMalle » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:57 pm

- What/Where are Windows System Folders?"
For Windows VST3 the specification defines "C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3" for ALL plugins. This should not be changed, because normal programs expect every VST3 to be installed there.

- Can VST3 Plug-ins be put in multiple 'System' folders?
They are, and should be, all installed in the folder above. Sometimes they are installed in subfolders there.

- Can VST3 Plug-Ins be put into a designated VST3 Custom Folder AND its (multiple) sub-folders?
VST3s should always be installed in the pre-defined system folder. There is no reason not to do that. VST2 plugins are often historically distributed in several different folders, what has lead to the title of this forum post. Because for VST2s would be good to select multiple search folders. However they are no longer supported in the future, which will be VST3.

The way the plugins are presented or sorted in the DAW depends on how detailed the plugin manager of the DAW is implemented. So some DAWs just have a rudimentary plugin management system, other DAWs have a more sophisticated, where you can setup custom folders, thumbnails, black lists, multiple folders for VST2 plugins, sort by manufacturer or by function, etc... Please note that for VST3 multiple search folders is not needed, because eveything is (should be) installed in one predefined "system" folder. In Ableton Live VST3s are sorted by manufacturer by default. You can use collections to create your own sorting or wait for a more detailed plugin manager that maybe will come with future versions of Live.

JamesRX
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:59 am

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by JamesRX » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:02 am

Can someone help me pls? I have Ableton Live 8 (yeah its old). For some reason when updating the VSTs from Ableton, it has moved some VSTs to a completely different folder. I have taken a shortcut and pasted that into the VST folder but the scan doesn't pick them up. Does anyone know how I can pick up or move the VSTs to the correct folder?

many thanks

H20nly
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by H20nly » Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:32 pm

JamesRX wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:02 am
Can someone help me pls? I have Ableton Live 8 (yeah its old). For some reason when updating the VSTs from Ableton, it has moved some VSTs to a completely different folder. I have taken a shortcut and pasted that into the VST folder but the scan doesn't pick them up. Does anyone know how I can pick up or move the VSTs to the correct folder?

many thanks
Your issues might be related to 64 bit vs. 32 bit plugins. It was around Live 8 when the big 32-64 migration was happening.
You only said “VST”, not VST2 or VST3… so it’s hard to be able to say more without knowing if you were being literal or general and/or if your OS is 32 or 64 bit. The preferences menu for plugins in Live has changed too… so without a working copy of Live 8, I cannot recall what the options were. I can say that, for my own peace of mind and ease of use, I only use VST3 plugs these days (and AU since I switched to Mac). Plugins are supposed to enhance the output, not dictate the time and effort and derail the project

For older projects, I just remix them. I refuse to believe my skill sets and tools haven’t improved enough that I cannot remix a project that used a VST or VST2 plugin
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

Clint Goss
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:03 pm

Re: Multiple VST folders

Post by Clint Goss » Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:44 pm

This is literally Day One for me on Ableton Live. And I'm already on the Forum, reviving a long-dormant thread ...

Wrestling with how get Ableton in-line with my VST folder structure (that has evolved over 20+ years through Sonar, CbB, Reaper, and Cantabile). All those have some multi-folder setup (either a GUI or just a plain-text string with directory paths separated by semicolons). Now hoping for develop a folder of NTFS Junctions to handle this Ableton quirk.

However ... I'm not clear (and cannot locate in the manual) the details of the three choices in Options => Preferences => Plug-Ins:
  • VST2 Plug-In Custom Folder - will a VST3 on this path be recognized?
  • VST3 Plug-In System Folders - What are the system folders locations, according to Live? Maybe just C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 ... or something else?? Also ... will a VST2 on this path be recognized?
  • VST3 Plug-In Custom Folder - will a VST2 on this path be recognized?
-- Clint Goss

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