CLAP Plugin support

Share what you’d like to see added to Ableton Live.
atomic_afro
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:39 pm

CLAP Plugin support

Post by atomic_afro » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:46 pm

https://u-he.com/community/clap/

I believe that CLAP will be THE cross-platform plugin standard of the next decade. I think it's a perfect fit for Ableton to adopt as it's natively MIDI 2.0 (MPE) compatible. It's also open source under MIT, making it easier for commercial software to adopt (over LV2 or LADSPA). Several software vendors and projects (u-he & Surge) have already adopted or have announced support for the standard. I think Ableton should put CLAP on their roadmap for a future 11.x release.

jonljacobi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by jonljacobi » Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:08 pm

Not arguing against, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. But Ableton has surprised me before.

Rivanni
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by Rivanni » Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:01 pm

First of all, MPE is not a part of MIDI 2.
Secondly, I miss a good motivation why Ableton should support CLAP. All the licensing and open source stuff is something for plugin developers.
I know CLAP plugins have some advantages in a DAW but you're not mentioning those. Now it's just one of those 'this DAW has this feature so Live should have it too' requests.

[erm]
Site Admin
Posts: 281
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Location: Ableton

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by [erm] » Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:29 pm

Rivanni wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:01 pm
Now it's just one of those 'this DAW has this feature so Live should have it too' requests.
We don’t mind if people suggest features from other DAWs that they think might make things better in Live. Doesn’t mean it will get implemented, but that’s part of the reason for this forum too, to see what users are interested in.
Ableton Forum Administrator

jlgrimes
Posts: 1770
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by jlgrimes » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:54 pm

atomic_afro wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:46 pm
https://u-he.com/community/clap/

I believe that CLAP will be THE cross-platform plugin standard of the next decade. I think it's a perfect fit for Ableton to adopt as it's natively MIDI 2.0 (MPE) compatible. It's also open source under MIT, making it easier for commercial software to adopt (over LV2 or LADSPA). Several software vendors and projects (u-he & Surge) have already adopted or have announced support for the standard. I think Ableton should put CLAP on their roadmap for a future 11.x release.

I think if UHE/Bitwig pulls this off successfully, this will be a new standard. I think the CPU efficiency is the biggest feature.

That said this would probably take years to develop fully and get all big players on board.

I think Ableton need to keep their ears open but really get onboard if UHE/BITWIG are sucessful. That said Im guessing Ableton need to focus their resources on continuing improving VST development right now as it still is the universal standard more/less currently.

From the way UHE discusses its features DAW companies might already be interested as they will have more insight on Plugin spec development in theory and have an easier time interpreting the standard, so if successful, I think Ableton would have little choice and be forced to follow.

In the end though, I think this could also help make a better VST experience as they would have some competition

andesiro
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Location: Wrong Planet!
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Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by andesiro » Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:11 am

So, now reaper has caught up :idea: Since version 6.71, Reaper also supports CLAP :!:
Others will follow, I suspect. Especially the big players :lol: Only a matter of time because the advantages of CLAP are probably not to be despised :wink:

lukask
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:25 pm

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by lukask » Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:34 pm

Yes +1, please bring CLAP support to Ableton Live!

CLAP seems superior in its features and interoperability, so it's poised to become the standard for audio plugins. Eventually I could see some developers developing primarily for CLAP and maybe using wrappers to export their plugin to other formats (well ok, maybe Avid won't give up aax). Anyways it sounds like Ableton and us users would get more stable and correctly working plugins if Ableton gave the option to use the CLAP versions of plugins.

Here's another thread with more discussion on the advantages of CLAP and problems with the older formats: viewtopic.php?t=245401

Here's a growing list of plugins and DAWs (including Reaper and Bitwig) that support CLAP: https://clapdb.tech/

goose3000
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:03 pm

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by goose3000 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:17 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:08 pm
Not arguing against, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. But Ableton has surprised me before.
At Abletons pace, it should be here around Live 14.

pottering
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by pottering » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:11 am

goose3000 wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:17 pm
jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:08 pm
Not arguing against, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. But Ableton has surprised me before.
At Abletons pace, it should be here around Live 14.

Can't see any problem with Ableton's pace.

Live has AMXD, VST, VST3 and AUv3.

Logic only has AUv3, no VST, no VST3, no CLAP (probably will never have CLAP, due to owning AU).

Cubase has VST and VST3 (VST is on the way out, will be VST3-only in the future), no AU, no CLAP (probably will never have CLAP, due to owning VST/VST3).

Pro Tools only has AAX, no VST, no VST3, no AU, no CLAP.

Studio One has VST, VST3 and AUv2, but no AUv3, no CLAP (Studio One's dev was actually VST3's creator when he was in Steinberg, I wonder if he will feel compelled to defend his creation and not implement CLAP).

FL Studio has VST, VST3 and AUv2, but no AUv3, no CLAP.

Bitwig has VST, VST3 and CLAP, but no AU (probably will never have AU).

Reason has RE, VST, VST3 and AU, but added VST, VST3 and AU way after Live, no AUv3, no CLAP.

(Other less popular DAWs are usually VST-only. None load AUv3.)

It is only Reaper that has VST, VST3, AUv3 like Live, and also CLAP.

Clearly Ableton's pace for plugin format adoption is just fine, faster than most other DAWs, only Reaper is faster really.

(Another fact that shows this is the simple fact that pretty much every new plugin loads just fine in Live.)

Besides plugin formats, just last year (2022) Ableton released 2 big updates (11.1 and 11.2), Microtuner, Learning Synths update, Ableton Note (1st music app to top best selling iOS charts), 2 big Max updates (8.3 and 8.5) and RNBO.

(Also 3rd party Packs like Slink Devices and Chiral)

The only time Ableton was "slow" was during Live 9, but people forget that time was when Ableton, a SOFTWARE company, released their first HARDWARE products, Push 1 (with Akai, launched w/ Live 9) and then Push 2 (launched w/ 9.5).

Seems people don't get how risky it is for a software company to dive into hardware.

Ableton probably kept some money saved instead of investing in new hires (or keeping old people that wanted a rise) until it was clear Push 1 and 2 were a sustainable success, and they would not need the money to compensate for losses.

After Push 2 was shown to be a success, it is clear they picked up speed again.

Push 2 was launched in 2015, probably took 2015 and 2016 for them to fell safe to spend the Push 2 warchest.

After that they bought Cycling'74, launched the Learning Music site, Ableton Link and Live 10, all in one year, 2017.

Seem Live 10 was a period they started new stuff, Live 10's press release says they had 230 employees, Live 11's press release says 430 employees, they hired 200 people during Live 10, almost doubling size.

We know one of those new projects now (Ableton Note, and its Cloud feature).
♥♥♥

Farley
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:04 pm

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by Farley » Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:05 pm

Now that FabFilter released CLAP versions of their plugins, I'll sneakly bump this old topic, just so it's visible. :mrgreen:
Evolved into "noctucat".
https://www.noctucat.com

FlipBit
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:13 pm

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by FlipBit » Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:32 am

+1 Especially considering the following reason:
Farley wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:05 pm
Now that FabFilter released CLAP versions of their plugins, I'll sneakly bump this old topic, just so it's visible. :mrgreen:
So... even not that sneaky bump!

UniversalFlyer
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:59 am

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by UniversalFlyer » Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:06 pm

CLAP can modernise plugin development. For instance programming languages Rust, Golang and others can be used for plugins, not only C++.

Ableton, here is your chance. Being always modern and versatile is a hard goal, but I hope it will happen and happen not too late.

spinlud
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 9:27 am

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by spinlud » Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:37 am

+1 CLAP support

ke7in
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:54 am

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by ke7in » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:56 am

+1 Anything that helps CPU and stability!

Machinesworking
Posts: 11408
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: CLAP Plugin support

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:12 pm

pottering wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:11 am
Can't see any problem with Ableton's pace.
? Someone didn't care about:

recordable automation in clips

full screen edit window commands

polyphonic aftertouch

MPE

Track lanes

comping

System Exclusive messages

universal LFO

We got all those things (well SysEx is capable with M4L anyway), but not one of them was implemented quickly by any standard of measurement.
Ableton take their time, it's all good, but in no way are they Cubase (for instance) pace with new features,

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