score editor!

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
davidbayles
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score editor!

Post by davidbayles » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:28 pm

logic, cubase, and pro tools all have this now!

also, mixing in ableton really needs to catch up to the competish...
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mr.ergonomics
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Post by mr.ergonomics » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:31 am

have to say -1

because there are much more important things and if you want to do straight forward score editing, there are really much more advanced things out there then ableton for this.

rewind
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Post by rewind » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:33 am

I don't want this.

davidbayles
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Post by davidbayles » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:29 am

mr. ergonomics: same could be said of most things in ableton, but I still choose to, for example, mix and sometimes master in ableton... anyway, i'm really just talking about a really simple piano roll/midi to score/notation functionality.. so I can get my string players to try my synth parts... As of now I'm exporting midi clips into logic (then I have to re-do all the time sig changes: a big pain).
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Toxie
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Post by Toxie » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:52 pm

I second this request. Even Garageband can do this. Why the need to export to another similar program for spitting out simple lead sheets and parts? Ableton is trying to cover all the bases (writing, recording, performing) - so this would round out the capabilities and keep this DAW competitive with the industry.

rutgermuller
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Post by rutgermuller » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:11 am

Offtopic maybe, but Lilypond - http://lilypond.org/ - has a small learning curve, but makes beautiful scores.

Live needs a function to view multiple midi tracks as one pianoroll first, to make it easier to compose for example counterpoint.

Mike Goodwin
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Post by Mike Goodwin » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:23 pm

-1 as well. I see no place in live for that personaly. Another reason to have a replacement for rewire.

audiojunkies
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This would be rubbish waste of cpu in Live

Post by audiojunkies » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:33 pm

If you want a score editor go use sibelius or the bloated cubase,

Live is for a different thing!!!

NO TO SCORE EDITOR

davidbayles
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Post by davidbayles » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:39 pm

there are a lot of things in live that i don't use, but don't mind them being there for other people... why try to shut out something that the industry as a whole is moving towards (logic, cubase, now pro tools)? a lot of ableton users would benefit this.

also, i find it hard to believe that ableton is not aware or worried about losing people to other programs who have functionality that they don't. ableton is alot more than session view at this point. they've come up with some really elegant ways to compete with other DAWs, and i'm sure they could do scoring the ableton way without bothering people who don't need it.

the whole "i don't use it so i don't want anyone to use it" stance doesn't make sense to me.
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Blurr
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Post by Blurr » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:14 am

+1

I find the opposition to this capability really weird ?

What self respecting music authoring platform would actually NOT want the capacity to work with musical notation ? It's like a French teacher who can't speak french ?

I know LIVE is a bit different but it's been getting steadily closer to being the only tool more & more of us need. I can't afford Sibilus, ,don't want the extra complexity, don't need it's full range of features, don't want another regular UpGrade cost.

Scoring is the type of functionality that could help LIVE break into new markets, and we all want ABLETON to have as many customers as possible.

Why do I have to use a text editor to document my Lyrics when I own a modern Music production software suite ? :?:

Nokatus
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Post by Nokatus » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:08 am

Score editing would be super nice, HOWEVER I would much rather see Ableton concentrating on expanding the current MIDI editing functionality before starting to add scoring features.

Mike Goodwin
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Post by Mike Goodwin » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:41 pm

Blurr wrote:+1

I find the opposition to this capability really weird ?

What self respecting music authoring platform would actually NOT want the capacity to work with musical notation ? It's like a French teacher who can't speak french ?
So in otherwise analog and other hardware sequencers are not to be respected and can't speak the language of music. I would like to know how people who have dedicated there lives to building and using this type of equipment would feel about your statement.

redglass
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Re: score editor!

Post by redglass » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:38 pm

photonicrecords wrote:logic, cubase, and pro tools all have this now!

also, mixing in ableton really needs to catch up to the competish...
-1

1) For Ableton it does not make sense to copy other DAW's, but well to make the difference. Musicians buy Live, as it is different to other DAW's.

2) If you have to share shortcuts - DAW and an implemented score editor-, working gets slower. Shortcuts for most of the functions makes working with Live and eg Sibelius much quicker.

3) eg Logic: If you have a complete midi arrangement and you want to write an easy to read sheet for a musician or an ensemble, you need to change a lot in the score arrangement. that probably means that you would mess up your midi-arrangement. Think of repeats (1st, 2nd, Coda, Segno and so on)

4) I work with Live and Sibelius, and I would never go and do things in only one of these programs: midiediting & scoring. Extracting single instruments from a score in eg in C into their natural key is an easy job in Sibelius or Finale. Not so easy to create, I guess.

5) I'm a classical trained musician. I want Live to show me the other world of music: electronical, loop based music!

6) If you are looking for a free solution, have a look at: noteflight.com
its possible to import midi-data via xml, they are working on a better solution.

Greez Bastian
Last edited by redglass on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Blurr
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Post by Blurr » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:17 pm

Please note that I'm not criticising LIVE for the absence of scoring. I'm happy with the development choices and pace of LIVE. I do however strongly believe it should be on the radar somewhere and the forum is where I place my vote.

I am criticizing, and am a little offended by the people who go out of their way to voice opposition to scoring. Like they are afraid it will steal development time from features they want.

Mike: I'm not trying to argue but I don't see your point ? LIVE is not a hardware device and therefore not comparable. LIVE's perform ace features do not IMHO change its basic categorization of DAW. And I just don't see the argument that a DAW should be ignorant of scoring and it seems the other DAW developers agree.

But maybe I've got it wrong, obviously there are many people like me who want LIVE to grow up in the DAW world. Then there's the live Performance people who put stability at 95% , live performance features at 5% and anything else at -25%. There is a small part of me that feels a bit like a poacher, Ableton created this real cool software for live performances and all these DAW type hacks adopted it creating marketing forces that pushed it to be more and more DAW like. Then some A**hole starts requesting a score editor :wink:

I have the impression that LIVE the performance tool will always put LIVE the DAW in the back seat and I'm totally cool with that. But like I said before, they have already come so far that IMHO a lack of scoring shows up as a weakness.

The way it happened was the cause of it all :wink:

Thanks for your input MrMoneypenny, I'll check out suggestions. I'm not a professional and perhaps ill equiped to understand the true scope of implementing a scoring.

How about a comment Track ? I could put my lyrics and other prodution notes in there ? Then maybe it could support event markers that interface with MAX ?

Mike Goodwin
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Post by Mike Goodwin » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:29 pm

Blurr wrote: Mike: I'm not trying to argue but I don't see your point ? LIVE is not a hardware device and therefore not comparable. LIVE's perform ace features do not IMHO change its basic categorization of DAW. And I just don't see the argument that a DAW should be ignorant of scoring and it seems the other DAW developers agree.
Well I have a hard time understanding how you can miss my point. But that is fine. I found your comment about self respecting software and so on to be offencive. Music does not rely on score. That is my point. You feel that to be respected the software needs score. And I simply feel that score is not how I make music.

Why oppose this feature? Well that is pretty simple. A billion more lines of code creates a billion more places where things can go wrong in a live situation. I use live 95% of the time in my studio to compose and mix. And even then I would live to stay focused on Live performance because the other 5% of the time it simply has to work! Or the other 95% of my work falls flat on its face in front of a room full of people.

For all these other features that live is missing I feel that live should simply come up with an alternative for rewire and be done with it. Let people sync the dam thing up to, Cubase, Logic, Sonar, Samplitude, Sequoia, Pyramix and all the other fully featured DAW programs. This would leave live to focus on what it does best and remain a quick way to express ideas and a stable tool for live performance. Look at it this way. There are at least 6 other programs out there that can handle your score needs. There is only one program that can do what Live can do on a stage. Do we really need another logic?!

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