Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

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contakt321
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Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by contakt321 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:07 pm

My first feature request :)

Inspired by this thread: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=110451

It seems counter-intuitive that drumracks created from Warped Audio don't utilize the warped information and sync to tempo. As a result, if import audio with an initial tempo of say 100 bpm, then warp, and change the master tempo to say 140 bpm the loop will play on time, sound fine, etc. However, if you slice this loop to a drum rack, all of the slices will play at a tempo of 100 bpm (the original tempo) which obviously is not desired because they aren't in time.

There is a workaround: to warp the audio, consolidate at the desired tempo then slice to drum rack. However, again, this means that the chopped elements will only play back in time with the new tempo. This means you can't utilize the drum rack effectively across different projects, change speed on the fly, etc.

Is there any way that drum racks simpler or samplers can utilize the warp data from the original clip to keep the slices in time with whatever the master tempo is set to? I think this would take an already powerful tool and make it even stronger, especially for sample based production like hip-hop and house where things are often chopped into bits and re-arranged.

Hope this reads clearly, thanks for taking the time to read and please post a comment if you agree!!!
Last edited by contakt321 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

McQ714
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by McQ714 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:12 pm

Explained perfectly!!!

majestics
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by majestics » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:27 pm

Thanks contakt321

This is a must for any hip hop sample flippers.

I hope this does happen as the timestretch/warping function is a fundamental part of Ableton so it should be used in drum racks too!
Last edited by majestics on Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

longjohns
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by longjohns » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:33 am

maybe just skip the step of the warping and slice the audio based on it's transients / individual sounds?

that would handle it for small tempo variations, and large ones could be assisted by transposing the whole rack's incoming midi

longjohns
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by longjohns » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:35 am

contakt321 wrote:import audio with an initial tempo of say 100 bpm, then warp, and change the master tempo to say 140 bpm the loop will play on time, sound fine, etc.
there are many who would disagree with you on this point :wink:

Illum
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by Illum » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:44 am

+1,000,000
without a doubt, my biggest problem with live right now. so disappointed this wasn't a part of 8.
illumeaudio.com
myspace/illiacsound

contakt321
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by contakt321 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:45 am

longjohns wrote:
contakt321 wrote:import audio with an initial tempo of say 100 bpm, then warp, and change the master tempo to say 140 bpm the loop will play on time, sound fine, etc.
there are many who would disagree with you on this point :wink:
Not sure what you mean? Taking it OT re: sound quality of Warped files? I am no audiophile :)

Willyum
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by Willyum » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:31 am

Since this will be the official post I will put my explanation here also for alternative example...

And a +1

The warp markers tell live how much to time stretch a sample from warp marker to warp marker. Being that none of the samplers have time stretch, this information gets lost in translation. Impulse has time stretch but Ableton does not allow Impulse to be a default device in 'slice to midi'.

Take a sampled drum riff that's slightly off timing that has 4 warp markers to correct it...

From marker 1 to 2 speed is fine. marker 1 time stretch = 0
From marker 2 to 3 speed is slow. marker 2 time stretch = +2
From marker 3 to 4 speed is fine. marker 3 time stretch = 0
From marker 4 to end speed is fast. marker 4 time stretch = -1

If Sampler or simpler had time stretch, or if impulse was allowed to be used. The warp marker 'time stretch' value (0,+2,0,-1) could be passed on with the slices. THEN your slices would match your warped (warp=stretch) file.

For some reason Ableton refuses to do this and has not commented (as far as I know) on this. This is not just beneficial for sample timing, it is also necessary for sample tuning. I guess they feel musicians who use sampled clips don't tune their sounds like other musicians. Or maybe ableton does not want to be associated with quality sample based music....

Willyum
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by Willyum » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:35 am

To add to this, Tempo would still need to interact with the 'stretch value' like it currently does with warped files.


McQ714
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by McQ714 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:31 pm

This is all getting really confusing. I want a way to slice the audio clip from one track to a midi clip in another track where upon slicing, Live actually analyzes the audio clip and warps each slice using the warp info from the original audio clip so that all slices keep with any tempo change in the current project or any other project you want to put that newly created rack in. Now, if that means that you can only use one type of slice method, i.e. slice each bar or 2 bars, then so be it... but it would be great to be able to use any method available. if the slices aren't warped, they just seem useless to me.

contakt321
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by contakt321 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:50 pm

McQ714 wrote:This is all getting really confusing. I want a way to slice the audio clip from one track to a midi clip in another track where upon slicing, Live actually analyzes the audio clip and warps each slice using the warp info from the original audio clip so that all slices keep with any tempo change in the current project or any other project you want to put that newly created rack in. Now, if that means that you can only use one type of slice method, i.e. slice each bar or 2 bars, then so be it... but it would be great to be able to use any method available. if the slices aren't warped, they just seem useless to me.
This is exactly what I posted about, sorry if what I wrote was confusing.

McQ714
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by McQ714 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:25 pm

just trying to simplify the thread Contakt... this doesn't seem like a difficult thing to be able to program (from a non-programmer's POV). i hope we don't have to wait for Live 9 for this to be implemented. take that partnership with serato and put it to good use Ableton (Pitch n Time!!!) Warp n Time?!?

contakt321
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by contakt321 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:29 pm

Word.

Yeah, I am no programmer, I don't know if it would be difficult or resource heavy but I do know that this would make drumracks insanely powerful and even more useful.

BinaryB
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Re: Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

Post by BinaryB » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:04 am

+1
Live8 & Serato
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