VST Instrument support would make Live PERFECT, for me...

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Tue Aug 06, 2002 7:57 pm

I am preparing a slew of live shows all over the place and am planning to use Live as the core of my setup. My only problem is that I do alot of live playing of VST instruments(Absynth, SampleTank, etc) and this means I need to open another application to support them which results in less stability and loss of processing power. Frankly, Live is the only application that I completely trust on stage. It is truly remarkable and a pleasure to own. If I could play VSTi's thru it, it would be the last word in software for my needs.

Rx · Post by Rx » Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:52 pm

What about something like a sister app that's a ReWire slave, that allows one to play VSTi? I'd prefer Live not get too many features, lest it lose its trustworthiness.

TJ: Curious to catch one of your shows - got a website with a list of dates?

os · Post by os » Wed Aug 07, 2002 8:15 am

I can't see that VSTi support would create any more instability than VST effect support - it's all down to the stability of the plugins, either way.

(I'm in the pro-VSTi camp as far as Live is concermed).

The problem with all the "sister app" suggestions is that you have to worry about routing the audio from one to the other.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:55 pm

os wrote:I can't see that VSTi support would create any more instability than VST effect support - it's all down to the stability of the plugins, either way.

(I'm in the pro-VSTi camp as far as Live is concermed).

The problem with all the "sister app" suggestions is that you have to worry about routing the audio from one to the other.

hey, my website is down for a remodel. shows will be coming very soon in Brklyn, Manhattan, Chicago and Seattle. i'll post as dates are confirmed. the first show, i believe, will be at North 6 in Brklyn, where i live.

Rx · Post by Rx » Wed Aug 07, 2002 1:52 pm

I just went to North 6 for GhettoGlitch - nice place, except for the god-awful rap I had to endure for too long.

os: What's the issue with routing audio when ReWire is involved? Do you not like the way that works? I have some trust in the Ableton folks to make a good decision with regard to midi - they're always on the ball with regards to improving Live, and since many of them are laptop performers, they understand the need for stability.

os · Post by os » Wed Aug 07, 2002 1:58 pm

I've not used ReWire much, so I'll have to ask: say my VSTi host app outputs via ReWire - can I feed each VSTi output as a separate channel into Live, and then feed these instrument inputs through the Live effect sends?

Even if this could be done (and I'm not saying it can't, I just don't know) you'd still have to fire up two applications and load two song files every time you wanted to load a new song.

To be honest, it strikes me that Live would be more likely much more stable hosting the VSTis itself - only one app running, Ableton's solid programming in control of everything, no ReWire or similar interface to get working. Adding more apps can only introduce potential problems.

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:22 pm

os wrote:I've not used ReWire much, so I'll have to ask: say my VSTi host app outputs via ReWire - can I feed each VSTi output as a separate channel into Live, and then feed these instrument inputs through the Live effect sends?

Even if this could be done (and I'm not saying it can't, I just don't know) you'd still have to fire up two applications and load two song files every time you wanted to load a new song.

To be honest, it strikes me that Live would be more likely much more stable hosting the VSTis itself - only one app running, Ableton's solid programming in control of everything, no ReWire or similar interface to get working. Adding more apps can only introduce potential problems.

i agree that Live would make a great VSTi host. it is already designed for stability at it's core. i believe you can run seperate VSTi tracks to seperate Live tracks via ReWire. even Reason supports multiple outs so you can probably even do it with that. if Native Instruments would implement ReWire my problems would be solved. still VSTi hosting in Live would be great. i don't even care about recording the MIDI data at all. just the audio from the VSTi would be enough.

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:25 pm

Rx wrote:I just went to North 6 for GhettoGlitch - nice place, except for the god-awful rap I had to endure for too long.

os: What's the issue with routing audio when ReWire is involved? Do you not like the way that works? I have some trust in the Ableton folks to make a good decision with regard to midi - they're always on the ball with regards to improving Live, and since many of them are laptop performers, they understand the need for stability.

ha ha. i heard about that show. go to Stinger if you want to hear decent hip-hop in a normal bar. there is some good stuff going on at North 6 from time to time. Halcyon is consistantly great though and a nice place. Share is unreal and tons of fun.

Rx · Post by Rx » Wed Aug 07, 2002 3:03 pm

My only regret was that I didn't bring a crate of tomatoes to pelt the so-called rapper and her tasteless sycophant posse.

I've heard of Halcyon - a friend of mine might be spinning there in a couple of weeks, so I might go check it out.

I checked out Share 2 weeks ago - really cool. Unfortunately for me, I work on Sundays, so I have to extend my break just to spend a 1/2 hour there. I'll try to drop in this Sunday.

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 3:24 pm

Rx wrote:My only regret was that I didn't bring a crate of tomatoes to pelt the so-called rapper and her tasteless sycophant posse.

I've heard of Halcyon - a friend of mine might be spinning there in a couple of weeks, so I might go check it out.

I checked out Share 2 weeks ago - really cool. Unfortunately for me, I work on Sundays, so I have to extend my break just to spend a 1/2 hour there. I'll try to drop in this Sunday.

what's your music like? maybe we could set up a show. i'll be doing some shows with an "art-rock" i used to be in. trying to breathe some technology and soul into the typical "indie rock" shows. a little break from the typical night of guitars.

twelve · Post by **twelve** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 3:31 pm

Though the vsti issue has been talked about before and seems decided that it will not happen anytime soon, i agree that it would seem like an opportunity to enhance the performance experience. For myself as well, if you could record vstis with straight audio this would be enough. I have looked for a mac vsti host with rewire capability and it seems there is not one (minus the expensive programs). There are some pc ones for cheap out there with rewire capability.

Rx · Post by Rx » Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:07 pm

My music is really in the embryonic stage - you can check out one track at http://www.djrx.com/tracks/ , which I made for this Phatmatik contest and am in the process of reworking since I ended up liking the rhythm a lot. I like IDM, minimal techno and deep house - I'm guessing something in that vein will be what my tracks will basically sound like.

Now that I think of it, I have another track, which is in a Live mix I made. If you've got the bandwidth, the mix is at http://www.djrx.com/mix/ , and my song kicks in during the 47th minute. While the rest of the mix is a more typical dj-thing, my track was all loops I sequenced on the fly.

I anticipate acquiring a laptop by the end of the year and am very much looking forward to performing live.

atom_b · Post by **atom_b** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:17 pm

Rx wrote:What about something like a sister app that's a ReWire slave, that allows one to play VSTi?

I also suggested this in a previous thread concerning VSTi and I would like to have a statement from someone who actually knows about ReWire and VSTi and can say if this is really possible, because I fear that a Rewire slave maybe would not be able to host VSTi.

Anyways, if it is possible we all should set out to find someone who would write this mean little app and make a collection to pay for the development... and maybe ableton could distribute it.

Link · Post by **Link** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:27 am

Personally, all that is needed with regard VSTi support (given the "live" concept of the whole idea in the first place) is for Live to be able to pass through MIDI note data to the VSTi. As far as I can see this would be very easy to do given that Live already passes through controller data through the VST protocol.

Having VSTi tracks that could then be played and recorded into clips, live, along with the ability to re-record\overdub with "live" clips in an echoplex fashion would do it for me. That alone would also allow external sync and triggering of VSTi's via MIDI if they wanted anyway as well.

The only possible conflict I can see is a clash between controller assignments for triggers but if the VSTi tracks had their own MIDI port assignable in preferences that would solve that one in a stroke.

Regards, Link

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