Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
Scaper7
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:58 pm

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by Scaper7 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:22 am

Stromkraft wrote:What you see isn't what you hear. It's what you assume.
to be honest, i'm not one to make assumptions in this field. More like forensic ... my observations based on 25 years+ working with drum samples/MIDI loops, drum machines and drummers.

as interesting as your post might be, it's straying a ways off topic. with respect, it's not a debate about 'Grid vs whatever'. The topic here is "Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beatmaking" ... here's from the original post (a very specific problem to address)
Ernst wrote: ... if you, like me, are making tracks and beats on the fly on stage, you need to be able to set a default groove for your project. Things need to be simple and fast. If I'm making a Jackin House track I know that every clip I record is going to be quantized and swing like a mofo. I don't want to have to muck about in the groove pool, finding the right groove, then applying it to the clip I just recorded ...
and the simple proposed solution
Ernst wrote: Please, it can't be that hard to have a default groove as an option, right?
so let's give this topic a little oxygen ... it's a simple idea that would solve a current problem for live beatmaking

Ernst isn't the only one having this problem. And a simple 'default groove' option would fix it.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by Stromkraft » Mon May 01, 2017 9:46 am

Scaper7 wrote:The topic here is "Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beatmaking" ... here's from the original post (a very specific problem to address)
Ernst wrote: ... if you, like me, are making tracks and beats on the fly on stage, you need to be able to set a default groove for your project. Things need to be simple and fast. If I'm making a Jackin House track I know that every clip I record is going to be quantized and swing like a mofo. I don't want to have to muck about in the groove pool, finding the right groove, then applying it to the clip I just recorded ...
and the simple proposed solution
Ernst wrote: Please, it can't be that hard to have a default groove as an option, right?
so let's give this topic a little oxygen ... it's a simple idea that would solve a current problem for live beatmaking

Ernst isn't the only one having this problem. And a simple 'default groove' option would fix it.
Yes, I fully agree with that part. A default groove would be wonderful. That does not mean Ableton need to go backwards and re-implement the groove function of Live 7.

I think and feel the grove function overall need some love from Ableton, as I see it as central for the attraction of Live. I think, despite its shortcomings, it is marvellous.

I'd like to see
  • Default grooves per track
  • Ability to choose groove and adjust all parameters from the Push
  • Ability to keep note lengths or change the movement of the note ends (note offs) differently than the starts.
  • Some visual reference of what the groove is doing compared to the original data, that doesn't necessitate committing.
  • Integrated groove editing, probably in the style of ghosting
Make some music!

Tagor
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by Tagor » Mon May 01, 2017 3:07 pm

http://beatwise.proboards.com/thread/18 ... peat-rates[/quote]
So can the Push note repeat function not be changed anymore via clyphx control surface actions anymore? Or did just the precise way to change it change? (I haven't used my Push in a long while)
In the later case I'm sure you could just change the new const.py file (of clyphx) in the same manner as the one in the thread was altered.
No its not, cause the python language changed its resolution in which this repeatnotes are programmed - the ratios are now coded in a much more complicated formula, thats make it not easy to reproduce the doted and others repeat states.

look:

t = 3.0 / 2.0
NOTE_REPEAT_FREQUENCIES = [32 * t,
32,
16 * t,
16,
8 * t,
8,
4 * t,
4]
del t

class NoteRepeatComponent(ModesComponent):

^^^this code whas kind of easy to expand, the nasa-moonlanding formula they use in the newer script is useless until you made your bachelor in astrophysiks and nuclear-mathematics.

TomKern
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by TomKern » Tue May 02, 2017 7:49 am

Tagor wrote: No its not, cause the python language changed its resolution in which this repeatnotes are programmed - the ratios are now coded in a much more complicated formula, thats make it not easy to reproduce the doted and others repeat states.

look:

t = 3.0 / 2.0
NOTE_REPEAT_FREQUENCIES = [32 * t,
32,
16 * t,
16,
8 * t,
8,
4 * t,
4]
del t

class NoteRepeatComponent(ModesComponent):

^^^this code whas kind of easy to expand, the nasa-moonlanding formula they use in the newer script is useless until you made your bachelor in astrophysiks and nuclear-mathematics.
The moon landing was Fake News, haven't you heard?! :mrgreen:

Anyways that piece of code doesn't look like it should be what is defining the ratios (not enough information contained), rather it could be the function that calls the elsewhere defined ratios.
Maybe it's worth it to hunt some more in the clyphx files for the ratios. Or simply ask Stray, he obviously knows how to do it and is always super helpful. 8)

Huh, or strike that :D

It is pretty clear that multiplying the main resolution (16th, 8th, 4th etc) by 1.5 (t = 3.0/2.0) leads to triplet notes.
You could try if it gives you the ability for 1/2 triplets by adding two lines of 2, and 2*t before the ] bracket.
If that works you can then simply define d = 2.0 / 3.0 right after the formula for t and then get your dotted notes by adding lines within the brackets for 32*d, 16*d etc. (or simply dividing by "t" instead of multiplying should do the same)
Might be worth trying 8)


Note: I don't actually know how any of this goes, so this is just speculation on my part going from what I take from the available information.

Tennor
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:19 pm

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by Tennor » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:09 pm

The groove pool is good but a global groove like the one in NI Maschine mk3 is needed.
You simply set the global groove amount and then each track can add extra to it if needed which is quick and easy.

Angstrom
Posts: 14661
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by Angstrom » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:40 pm

the oddest thing about groove is ... there's the weird "hidden" groove which I guess is accesible very easilly from Push, but also via the API.

I have a footpedal assigned to it, the more times I press it the more groovy the currently selected clip gets. Well that's how I like to use it.

I mean this

Code: Select all

def swingclip (self,value):
	if value>0:
		self.song.swing_amount=0.2#set swing amount
		self.song.view.highlighted_clip_slot.clip.quantize(5,0.7) #apply it incrementally
it's unusual because it's a completely separate swing from the groove pool. it's just a plain old 16th shuffle

Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:09 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:40 pm
the oddest thing about groove is ... there's the weird "hidden" groove which I guess is accesible very easilly from Push, but also via the API.
That is the Push-Swing.
It has a monofunctional knob on Push.
Angstrom wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:40 pm
it's a completely separate swing from the groove pool. it's just a plain old 16th shuffle
Indeed.
Unfortunately.

*S.

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