More instruments in the live standard package

[3phase]

More instruments in the live standard package..beef your suite with the overabundance of sound presets and some high class sample libarys instead.. a good sampled grandpiano and string sections that can compete with the viena lib are well worth extra money.. but to pay extra for a sample plug in 2010?
you can get an hardware akai s1100 with a complete lib for 50 euros by now..and it sounds much better

[dna598]

completely agree, even though i love Ableton your Sampler comment is spot on.

[steff3]

Well, if you do not see the difference between Ableton sampler and an Akai S1100 I think you are really better off with the Akai for 50€ ....

I think there is no library outside that can compete with VSL and I think that Ableton should be the last company to be interested in that.

Get the suite - for a rather small difference in price you get a great set of instruments ...

best

[dna598]

Ofcourse we know the difference between Sampler and a S series akai.

A moot point when you consider that Logic basically costs £200 less than Suite and comes with a multisampler of the highest order. When you take that into consideration Ableton is not being competitive.Much better sounds too.

And hey, i consider myself an ableton fanboy too.

[geiger167]

I just joined after purchasing the basic live8 download package today, must say I was slightly disappointed with the included instruments (i.e. none lol) To be honest had to save for quite a long time for the software and probably should have waited a bit longer to get the box and the EIC package, but the lack of operator and sampler in the basic package is a bit mean lol. Sorry my first post is a whinge but I am migrating from logic and pro tools and the lack of instruments is a bit frustrating, and my next upgrade path appears to be upgrading to a suite package or buying each instrument one at a time as funds allow Maybe a better pricing on the seperate instrument pricing would be cool

[steff3]

[quote="dna598"]Ofcourse we know the difference between Sampler and a S series akai.

A moot point when you consider that Logic basically costs £200 less than Suite and comes with a multisampler of the highest order. When you take that into consideration Ableton is not being competitive.Much better sounds too.

And hey, i consider myself an ableton fanboy too.[/quote]

Well, I have logic as well and cannot see where exs is more full featured than Sampler ... ok, it has two advantages - more than 4 GB RAM access and KeyMap (although things from KeyMap can be imported into sampler as well).

And no, exs is not highest order anymore ... I think a single instance of Sampler might be less limited than a single instance of exs. EXS is great for playing back samples (as long as the sample set do not get too big as the number of samples than can be loaded is restricted) ... but so is Sampler and Sampler is also the only VI sampler that is about as efficient in my experience.

Of course Logic is a steal ... but Logic Studio bundle is so cross-financed with every sold Mac /(as Garageband and loops and sample instruments are on every new Mac), iLife (Garageband and loops), Garageband Loopset, Final Cut Studio (SoundTrack Pro, Compressor, etc.) that it is hard to compare IMHO.

If you look at other DAWs I think the the bargain-factor is about the same ...

Personally I doubt that with the same stuff you have a big difference in sound between Logic and Live.

best

[geiger167]

I wasn't really comparing the two directly (Logic and Ableton) as they are so different in the ways the work. All I was suggesting is that the Cheapest full version of Live8, which is the download version, be brought up to date with what it's main rivals are offering. For example, make the EIC packs available for download on all versions (as packs not as a single download to avoid server issues) without a hike in price. Secondly, make operator and sampler available on all versions, a sampler and a synth of some kind is a basic feature on all DAW (logic, sonar, cubase, reason, pro tools etc). By all means keep all the other instruments and session drums content for the suite, but the program is simply not competitive in todays market as it stands.

[3phase]

Well, if you do not see the difference between Ableton sampler and an Akai S1100 I think you are really better off with the Akai for 50€ ....

I think there is no library outside that can compete with VSL and I think that Ableton should be the last company to be interested in that.

Get the suite - for a rather small difference in price you get a great set of instruments ...

best

i only consider operator being good..sampler sounds as crap as simpler and is nothing i would pay extra.. there is more interesting plugs out there that deserve to get soemthing from the little cake of honest legal software users than the anyway well going abletons..

so 180 euros or more for suite is a joke.. for twice of that i can get a completet logic 9 with full surround support and convolution reverb...

lets say the other way around..i wouldnt pay more than 50 euro for a software instrument.. seeing that spending 3000 in a jupiter 8 is a much better investment where you get your money back any time while a plug once paid has virtually no physical value anymore..



earlier or later ableton will have to include theese tiny additions to the standard package anyway.. in between i do my tasks with reaktor..a nice piece of software that can do anything the ableton plugs offer and more..better bang for the bug

[dna598]

Ofcourse we know the difference between Sampler and a S series akai.

A moot point when you consider that Logic basically costs £200 less than Suite and comes with a multisampler of the highest order. When you take that into consideration Ableton is not being competitive.Much better sounds too.

And hey, i consider myself an ableton fanboy too.

Well, I have logic as well and cannot see where exs is more full featured than Sampler ... ok, it has two advantages - more than 4 GB RAM access and KeyMap (although things from KeyMap can be imported into sampler as well).

And no, exs is not highest order anymore ... I think a single instance of Sampler might be less limited than a single instance of exs. EXS is great for playing back samples (as long as the sample set do not get too big as the number of samples than can be loaded is restricted) ... but so is Sampler and Sampler is also the only VI sampler that is about as efficient in my experience.

Of course Logic is a steal ... but Logic Studio bundle is so cross-financed with every sold Mac /(as Garageband and loops and sample instruments are on every new Mac), iLife (Garageband and loops), Garageband Loopset, Final Cut Studio (SoundTrack Pro, Compressor, etc.) that it is hard to compare IMHO.

If you look at other DAWs I think the the bargain-factor is about the same ...

Personally I doubt that with the same stuff you have a big difference in sound between Logic and Live.

best

I appreciate the angle you are coming from but it doesnt get away from the fact that Suite is too expensive for what it is when compared to its rivals. Im with Geiger 167 on this one. Money talks, and Ableton are being a bit mean for not providing a Sampler (not Simpler).
Lets not forget that the "free" EXS24 has much better library import and patch storing facilities and handles rex files much better (you can extract the midi sequence from any patches made from rex). For me this makes it more professional than Sampler for accessing and storing sounds. All this on 8 year old Logic 5.5 cos thats the one i use.I believe it is the Drum Rack that is the killer feature for ableton.

And I believe you CAN and MUST compare the two, You would be silly not to if youre in the market for a daw.Unfortuantely for Ableton, Apple wins on the feature to price ratio by quite a long shot.

[steff3]

Well, for be the simple fact that Logic does not support 32bit audio file import and export painlessly, as well as that logic instruments are only useable within Logic but I can use Live instruments with every rewire host (which allows sample accurate sync) is very important in comparing the two.
Overall MIDI editing in Logic is atari style - hello, we are now on the 7th generation of OSX and Logic is an Apple product ... oh, filenames ... who needs more than 31 characters for a file name of any kind ... ?

Logic is a great program, but it is not up to date in many aspects. Of course, in some aspects it shines ...

Still, personally I see Live and Logic or DP more as supplementing each other. Of course EXS comes with a big library, but to me - I prefer quality over quantity and there Latin Percussion and Session Drums beat the whole Logic 9 exs library .... (additonally, some of that content you have anyways with Garageband and can load into Sampler easily ...)

Furthermore, to my knowledge Cubase does not come with any kind of sampler, with a sample player, but no sampler, so there Simpler can do even more. Also Digital Performer does not have to over more in this regard.

I mean, I had the choice to update Logic or to update Live ... (Logic from version 7 to 9, quite big update, Live from 5 to 8 ) - I decided to go with Live 8 suite although Logic update had the lower price tag .... Live does most things it does quite well ... Technically it is up to date and supports the features of my operating system better than Apple's own offering (which has still atari standard for some things)

Comparing to Logic - at the moment I do not see one software package that can compare to Logic if you count the features and gigabytes ... if you look for quality and clear implementation I think there are also other offerings that are worth it - Live, Digital Performer - even at the price they have ...

It is you decision and your money ... what do I care ... go with what suites your needs best or with what you thing is the biggest bargain

best

[geiger167]

Just to illustrate a point I loaded the vocoder preset today and was greeted with sorry you dont have operator installed, then tried to find a suitable alternative carrier synth from the simpler presets and couldn't even find a suitable brassy fm-ish bright patch, that made me glad I had saved for six months and bought the Program lol. Strangely some people on the boards are not Millionaire Rock Stars or Professional DJs and actually would appreciate a little content with our DAWs. A lot of you are missing the point of thread, we LOVE the program, we have BOUGHT the program, we simple want MORE content.
Let's approach this another way, my only upgrade path is either to buy each individual instrument for a hundred bucks a pop, so if I bought each one seperately would cost well over a grand, or I can upgrade to the Suite for about 300 euros or something. Why not offer the instruments to EXISTING owners of the basic packages for a discounted price, say thirty euros each, would still allow for for the full upgrade price for existing owners, but enable people who are not millionaires to get some content without having to take out a second mortgage

[dna598]

Dont use 32 bit files or Rewire! File naming is not exactly a deal killer either.
A proper Sampler coming with the prog is on the other hand, very very useful.And believe me, I have plenty to complain about Abletons Midi editor.
There needs to be more. That is all.

[H20nly]

Why not offer the instruments to EXISTING owners of the basic packages for a discounted price

What exactly would you do with those instruments if you weren't an existing owner of Live?

[geiger167]

I mean existing owners who have bought a full version of Live (i.e download version/boxed, suite download/boxed suite) rather than owners of lite versions

[H20nly]

If I was you... I'd buy the Suite. I'm me and thats what I did.

However, Ableton does offer discounts on things as you upgrade. Maybe you should try to pick one or 2 things that you know you would use right away. Sounds like Operator would be one. I'd suggest Drum Racks for the 2nd. If you end up wanting to buy the rest of the Suite later it will be less the price of those items. For example I had the Live 7 Suite and when I upgraded to 8 I didn't have Collision and Latin Percussion so those were my only upgrade options aside from the core Live app.

Its worthy of note that it seems to me that once you're in.. you're in. In other words once you buy the Suite or a single instrument upgrading Live seems to upgrade that instrument as well.

Also, sometimes there are deals. Combo packs of this or that for (say) 100 bucks less than what you would spend buying them both separately. Be patient grasshoppa...