Limited Live implementation on iPad

[garycapshaw]

How about a limited implementation of Live on the iPad, mainly for performance DJing. I assume the power is low enough that tracks would be limited, perhaps could not do instruments and limited effects. But many performance DJs have their tracks ready without instruments and many effects anyway. The touch screen would be the controller. Would also need an adapter to put power in and get audio out of the connector. Not sure if that would offer pro resolution though.

Image, walk into a club with the thing tucked in your jeans, pull it out, plug in the adapter and blow everyone away.

[omniphonix]

I can't understand how there are so many people wanting a touch screen interface for Live and screaming iPad and nobody seems to know about multi-touch PCs and Windows 7 having multi-touch support built in. Why would anyone want to carry a laptop and an iPad to a gig just to control Live? Not to mention, I have used Steinberg and Novation controller apps on the iPhone that use Bonjour and they suck. Apple is really good at marketing.

[delicioso]

Why would anyone want to carry a laptop and an iPad to a gig just to control Live?

What is the issue with carrying a laptop and an iPad to a gig?
TouchOSC is a proven solution that works very reliably with very low latency.

[The Landwhale]

Why would anyone want to carry a laptop and an iPad to a gig just to control Live?

What is the issue with carrying a laptop and an iPad to a gig?
TouchOSC is a proven solution that works very reliably with very low latency.

Because its cool to hate Apple products. Especially products that are not released yet, and/or you've never actually used.

I played a show last night using Touch OSC on my iPad, one of my singers friends came up to me afterwards and asked me "what was that crazy fucking thing you were using up there? That shit was badass!"
I told him it was an iPad, and all of a sudden he's like "Oh. Really? I fucking hate the ipad. They're stupid."

Funny thing is, i know this guy, and if I had told him it was an HP slate, or something from Dell or Compaq, he would have ranted and raved about how revolutionary it was.

Its the same bullshit corporate branding that you find with many other product choices, people feel compelled to use certain brand name/images to identify themselves.
For instance, there a shocking amount of men who feel drinking Budweiser beer is a sign of manhood, when Budweiser beer is one of the worst tasting, and toxic beers available. But their marketing budget and techniques have been extremely successful in putting this idea into our culture through their commercials.

Apple does it, they just do it in a different manner marketed towards a slightly different demographic.
Microsoft sure does, especially now with their ridiculous "Im a PC" campaign that uses THE EXACT same marketing tactic to make people feel as though they're NOT falling for marketing tactics when they choose to buy a PC over Mac or Linux. They just like "choice", and they want it fast and cheap. Just like my beer, my food, my clothes, my entertainment, my education, etc., etc..

It cracks me up how this trend/mentality has cropped up, all of a sudden using Windows is "punk as fuck"!
Strange world we live in where using THE most popular, mainstream operating system produced by a giant monopoly corporation can make one feel as though they're going against the grain.

Personally, I'm just really excited about the direction computer based music is heading, were starting to see a lot more physically expressive ways to create digital musis that's becoming akin to acoustic instruments.
That's a really good thing, regardless of which label was slapped onto the packaging of the computer that the overworked and underpaid Chinese woman built for your convenience.

[davepermen]

there are reasons to hate the apple ipad, though.. closed environment, full lock in, and even developers have to pay apple at each step of the livetime of an app are the main issues.

compared to this, windows is like linux. free as in beer. at least you're free to do what you want on it.

other than that, i wouldn't want a live implementation on the ipad. i'd prefer to have freaky styled controllers on there, lemur style or similar (there are existing ones allready i guess). and i will soon have win7 on touch devices (hp slate being one of them), and i still don't want to use live with touch really.

but to each it's own. i'm glad to hear you, Landwhale, have a nice performance with it. always cool to see people get to put stuff to good use. unimportant what device it is, then. and btw, i would take an ipad gladly. i just would never pay for it

[humnumb]

there are reasons to hate the apple ipad, though.. closed environment, full lock in, and even developers have to pay apple at each step of the livetime of an app are the main issues.

I see we've got ourselves yet another bitter Lemur owner here. It's getting quite tiring...

The iPhone OS concept was not designed to be like the Mac OS concept, where Mac OS is more open for you to use as you please than the iPhone OS. Like with Sony, Nintendo, MS: you buy their products (PSP/PS3, DS/Wii, Xbox 360) you are put in their environment. And if you develop for them, you follow their rules.

compared to this, windows is like linux. free as in beer. at least you're free to do what you want on it.

Have fun with viruses and malwares on your "open" windows platform. Good luck trying to use the HP Slate to control applications designed for mouse and keyboard, before its 3 hour battery runs out that is.

[myxomat0515]

Why would anyone want to carry a laptop and an iPad to a gig just to control Live?

And on that note, why would anyone want to walk around with an iPad tucked into their jeans?

[The Landwhale]

Ultimately, all this bullshit stems from marketing, and it's just that. Bullshit.

The closed environment argument is very, very lame. Especially when you look at the iPhone's history.
If you want a more accessible device (in trade for a possible reduction in stability and/or security) then just hack the damn ipad. The iPhone Dev Team and people like GeoHot will always make that possible, and I love that.
Speaking of GeoHot, how come you rarely hear big rants about how evil and fucked up Sony is for trying to COMPLETELY lock out access to the PS3? Or Microsoft disabling all the hacked Xboxes, when people PAID for that hardware?
Or the Wii? PSP?

Why doesn't Microsoft just release their Windows product for free, like Linux? Why do they make exclusive deals with Dell, Compaq, HP to release computers with no OS options other than Windows when you buy it? Why can't I choose Ubuntu for ANY pc i want to purchase from any computer company, right out of the box?
Why are they locking me out of choice?

Again, if it was Touch OSC running on an HP slate for $100 less than the ipad, with the same exact limitations as the iPad, it would simply be looked at as bad ass controller. Let's take it a bit further.
"Fuck the APC-40, it doesn't even have firewire! Goddamn Ableton and Akai are in cahoots to hold us all down!!!!"

And the most obvious, though no one seems to care, "Why on earth can't my $3000 JazzMutant Lemur run my favorite Flash advertisements in FireFox?!"

The reality is that the iPad running Touch OSC or similar IS a totally viable alternative to the Lemur and/or Monome, APC-40, etc. for a large segment of people who use Ableton, and at a substantially lower price (than the Lemur).
Maybe this seems a bold statement, but it is true.
If you doubt that, have a look at the Automap for TouchOSC thread. Keep in mind this computer has been out for just over a week.

It also has the benefit of being a bad ass portable computer that can do LOTS of other things, a very big one of those things being remote control of more powerful computers. I'm now able to just leave my laptop at home for most work days, because I can do just about any task I need on the ipad (usually faster). If I can't do it on the ipad, I just remote into the MBP from wherever I'm at.

No it is NOT a lemur, and perhaps there is not yet software as flexible as what jazzmutant makes for the iPad. YET. Give it a few months to a year tops. If JazzMutant doesn't make something, someone else will undoubtedly meet or exceed the lemur's software capability. Personally, I feel this will be much sooner than later.

Of course having a full, multi-platform version of Live running on powerful multi-touch computers is what everyone wants, and we're right around the corner. But.......... things take time to do right.

[omniphonix]

I don't think you guys are getting my point in this thread. Why carry an iPad when you could have the touch screen built right into the laptop running Live? I don't care who makes it, it just so happens the only powerful multi-touch laptop I can find is a Dell Studio 17 Touch, but I'm sure others will have something on offer in the near future, even Apple. My point is, touch the actual application and not have to deal with some freaky Apple protocols like Bonjour that could break.

[The Landwhale]

I don't think you guys are getting my point in this thread. Why carry an iPad when you could have the touch screen built right into the laptop running Live? I don't care who makes it, it just so happens the only powerful multi-touch laptop I can find is a Dell Studio 17 Touch, but I'm sure others will have something on offer in the near future, even Apple. My point is, touch the actual application and not have to deal with some freaky Apple protocols like Bonjour that could break.

I get your point, and mostly agree. It's just a matter of time to implement things.
Waiting for Live 9 (assuming this would be the multi-touch release) could be anywhere from 6 months to who knows how long. Whereas I'm already controlling Live 8 with Touch OSC on the iPad and it's working really, really well, as in right now, not someday

Another thing to consider is cost. For instance, if you have recently purchased a powerful new laptop at anywhere from $1000-$2000, you might not be able to go upgrade to another new laptop AND upgrade to the newest version of Live for quite some time.

Whereas a $500 iPad + a $5-$20 ableton control app would not be as bad.

OR....a $500 iPad + $20-$100 Ableton Live iPad edition that could export sessions that could be opened in Live 8 for further work. (Wishful thinking)
Even if the sessions weren't interchangeable, i'd be all over that shit.

Also, as far as dealing with freaky things like Bonjour, don't know what to say.
Bonjour works great for me.

Setting up Touch OSC, Osculator and ableton to work together properly is very easy and quick, at least on Mac systems.
Also, the new automapping LiveControl from ST8 uses Touch OSC directly with Ableton, was super easy to setup (and getting even easier), works great and cost $0-$5, depending on whether you already have Touch OSC or not.

[Atardecer]

Seems to have turned into another Mac Vs. PC debate with dicks waving in the wind. Get yourself a Wii controller and be done with it. Its an apple shade of white so Mac fanboys wont feel embarrassed by it, and it functions perfectly fine on a PC using free software

[The Landwhale]

Seems to have turned into another Mac Vs. PC debate with dicks waving in the wind. Get yourself a Wii controller and be done with it. Its an apple shade of white so Mac fanboys wont feel embarrassed by it, and it functions perfectly fine on a PC using free software

Thanks for bringing that much needed revelation to this "Controller application vs. Full implementation" debate.

[Atardecer]

Youre welcome. Wheres the smiley for dick in the wind?

[The Landwhale]

Dicks in the wind!

[jxnblk]

I really want an all-in-one iPad app for live performance. I would hope Ableton makes something, but if they don't someone else will, and it'll probably have a much better UI to boot. I feel like Ableton hasn't done anything really innovative since the first release of Live.