Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
Mr D
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: E.U.

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by Mr D » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:22 am

Jump forward to 2019, these guys have all now got wives and kids, and one still can't freeze and unload an instrument???!!!

Cmon!

pottering
Posts: 691
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by pottering » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:52 pm

Not unloading the instrument is the ADVANTAGE Freeze has over Flatten...

Nokatus
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:06 am

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by Nokatus » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:54 pm

pottering wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:52 pm
Not unloading the instrument is the ADVANTAGE Freeze has over Flatten...
Exactly. It's a specific thing that has its own use. No sense removing it altogether.

Mr D
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: E.U.

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by Mr D » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:07 pm

OK, but just to be clear, the reason why some people need to freeze (or flatten, whatever word you want to use) and unload the instrument is that some people are using multiple synths and samplers that hog a lot of memory.....so unloading frees up memory.

But you're right, sometimes you don't want to unload the instrument, as it takes longer to unfreeze (or unflatten) when the instrument is unloaded.

So we need both options available, each with just one click.

Nokatus
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:06 am

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by Nokatus » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:40 am

Mr D wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:07 pm
But you're right, sometimes you don't want to unload the instrument, as it takes longer to unfreeze (or unflatten) when the instrument is unloaded.

So we need both options available, each with just one click.
You mean three options: freeze, deep freeze and flatten. Each of these could be entered into straight away from the normal realtime track state.

Freeze and deep freeze are reversible states from which you can go to either direction: unfreeze to the regular state, or flatten to a wav with full editing capabilities and no going back. Freeze keeps all plugins loaded behind the scenes, deep freeze doesn't.

Mr D
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: E.U.

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by Mr D » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:50 am

Yeah, of course, you also want the option to just bounce to WAV with no going back.

It's actually possible to do deep freeze manually:

#1: Drag the track you want to deep freeze into your "current project" folder

#2: freeze and flatten track

Now, if you want to "go back", delete this track, then drag the original track back into the project.

Problem with this is that your sends won't be recalled.

There is some logic to that: if you drag a track that uses send D into a project where there is no send D, that would create weirdness.
But obviously it would be simple enough to code so that the send is recalled only if the send actually exists in the project.

Sidechaining routings also don't get recalled (and perhaps some other stuff) in my above explained workaround, but again, with some clever coding that could be mitigated (sidechain routing gets recalled only if that routing exists in the project).

Nokatus
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:06 am

Re: Remove distinction between FREEZE and FLATTEN

Post by Nokatus » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:16 am

Mr D wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:50 am
It's actually possible to do deep freeze manually:

#1: Drag the track you want to deep freeze into your "current project" folder

#2: freeze and flatten track

Now, if you want to "go back", delete this track, then drag the original track back into the project.
Yep, this is what I often do, also to store and recall sections of projects and so on.

The thing is, though, that's what it is: storing a track and its state in time. It's not actually "deep freeze" in that sense. (Just thinking out loud, I'm sure you know this :) ). So just in case someone doesn't know the distinction: when you have a track frozen in Live, you can reorder its contents freely, copy/paste etc. etc, consolidate pieces of it to form new clips and so on, and you naturally also have the session view representation of that track frozen at the same time. So you can engage record and trigger session view clips, and they get recorded on the arrangement track (all the while the track stays frozen). Similarly, you can create and edit send automation envelopes, and so on. Then, when you go back (unfreeze), all of the said changes -- arrangement recorded session view clips and all -- are kept in their current state after the unfreeze. If you merely drag the track back from the library, you recall it 1:1 as it was when saving it, losing all of those possible changes.

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