Comb and Formant Filters for Operator and Auto Filter

[mattverzola]

I've been diving into dubstep bassline creation and I've run into some features I wish I had. Specifically some more filter types for Operator. In Analog I have the formant filters, but Analog doesn't give me the FM grit nor does it have the creative routing capabilities of Operator.

I'd like to see additional filter types within Operator, but obviously it would be groovy to see these filter types as part of Auto Filter, too. Specifically the filter types that give some great sounds are comb filters and formant filters.

This is one area where synths like Thor and Absynth (to just name two) have capabilities I simply haven't discovered within the Ableton family.

Thanks!

[toupeira]

You can create a basic formant filter yourself with an effect rack and the EQ vowel presets, and then you can assign a macro knob to cycle through the vowels.

I guess a comb filter could be recreated similarly, but I agree that having more filter types available in Ableton would be great!

[mattverzola]

toupeira that's a great suggestion. I didn't realize there were EQ presets for the vowels, but now I see them. I went ahead and made an Effect Rack with the vowel presets and a macro knob to cycle through them. I added crossfades between the chains and even mapped all the resonances of the relative EQ bands to a macro as well.

After doing all that I have to say it behaves completely differently then if it were a dedicated filter type. You can compare it to Analog's F6/F12 filter to see what I mean. Altering the controls in Analog affects the vowels in a way I can't seem to emulate with the FX Rack (in Analog, the Freq adjusts the formant i.e. male/female, and the Reso adjusts the vowel). I can't find a way to alter the formant (the male/female part, not the vowel sound) with an EQ.

More importantly, as a filter type within Operator or Auto Filter, I could use the Filter Envelopes, LFOs, and sidechains. Even if I somehow tricked out my FX Rack with automation, I can't get natural movement or change in the sound, because I'm just crossfading between chains. It's that movement that I'm really looking for in my basslines...so it sounds like the bass is a big harry monster munching on static.

[Der_Makrophag]

+1

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=93000

[toupeira]

Yeah, as I said it's pretty basic

But definitely +1 on having comb and formant filters available in all built-in filters, and also +1 for "big hairy monster munching on static"

[prebentious]

+1

[Shesh]

I'd like to see the LFO section of auto filter improved.

MIDI input to retrigger LFO would be sweet.

[djgroovy]

Also, Sampler's morph filters in there too!

[Der_Makrophag]

As I wrote in some other post:

Basically ALL the different filters that are availabe in the other Live devices (Analog, Operator, Sampler, etc...) should find their way into Auto Filter. At least the most individual ones (Formant, Morph).

[condra]

+1

Comb and Formant filters in Operator would be amazing!!!

[Syncretia]

I don't get it...

EQ8 has presets for all the formant vowel sounds.

Auto Filter only has one pole and therefore cannot provide formant sounds because that requires several poles. When you see a "Formant Filter" in a filter drop down list or whatever, it is a kind of misnomer because it's not a single filter - it's many filters.

Anyway, you'd get better results from using EQ8 anyway, because you can map to the frequencies of the individual poles and macro those so that you can get a moving vowel sound which is the feature that you're probably looking for.

[Der_Makrophag]

In the meantime I got BiFilter2 from Tone2, this one is quite good (although analog filter types are too heavily overdriven).

Autofilter has minimum 2 poles, otherwise there would be no Bandpass Filter. And what is the problem in copying in more poles? Then, also steeper curves would be available.

And NO, EQ8 can not easily give the same results without routing 2 EQ8s in parallel (to create two bandpass filter "peaks").

This thread is also not about workarounds (although I admit, EQ8 gives you more detailled control), but about "Why does the filter device in Live have fewer filter types than other devices?". The LFO/Envelope is the only advantage there. What about Morph Filters from the Sampler for example?

[IMPULSOUND]

Hey!
Thanks for your suggestions!
Yeah the EQ8 trick is nice, so if the autofilter is just a onepole filter its not possible. Hmmmm, then we have to use the EQ8 or the max4live filters
Ableton could implement this two filtertypes in operator like the analog has.
Moreover the autofilter should have an "smooth" or "glide" slider (like the freq slider) to smooth the filter cuts made by the filter quantize.
For example: Make a fast quantize (1 or 2) and increase the amount on sounds with lots of transient and the filter will create clicks between the freq steps.

[JimSelin]

I have had some luck with comb filtering by running a second channel with the same source sound, then add i.1 ms second of track delay for every 10 feet of wire you want to simulate.Only add the delay to the second channel. For vocals found a setting of .2 to .5 works quite well. This can cause a "motown like " vocal track.

this is a fairly simple thing but they can add as an audio effect to same us some time though.

[alexfsu]

get the free M4L building tools, there's two comb filters in there and some other goodies like ring mod too