Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

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jasper
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Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by jasper » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:27 am

In the early versions it made sense, but it is becoming the one reason
I won't write using Live.
Live uses these dam PERCENTAGE ENVELOPES in Clips.
Example With MIDI tracks:
There are a good 20 clips stacked up on "synth track 1".
Only ONE of these clips needs an envelope to Send A.
With Live, I have to turn Send A all the way up on this midi track,
and now go into every other clip on this midi track to turn its Send A envelope to 0%.

On audio tracks (including ones just being used as sends with chains) you can't record automation into Clips at all.
So you opt for dummyClips to automate chains, etc...
And you're back to drawing envlopes with percentages and relative values.

So as an escape from the "takes a half hour to automate this clip" thing,
It's like: "I'll just use Reaktor because it'll be midi automation
(I'll know where my knobs are because it's not based on percentages), or...
okay I'll just work in the arrange view"...
"Working in the arrange view just for automation? I'd be done already if I just
threw all these tracks into Logic".
My only wish for Ableton Live is: "If the Ableton plugin's knob(if ANY plugin's knob) is at '20', for example, show me '20' in the Clip envelopes, everywhere.
not 'go spend wayyy too much time adjusting percentages in all of your clips
because this clip has an envelope in it'".
There's really no rhyme or reason for using the relative values anymore,
even with the '2 views'. Just let both views use the plugins' true values.
Maybe the app needs an 'automation layer' or a Preference setting or something, i dont know.
But I do see this issue discussed elsewhere on the web.
What a life-saving workflow gift it would be.

S4racen
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by S4racen » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:45 pm

In M4L you can set the automation of a live.dial to be absolute which does exactly as your asking so it would appear to be possible??

Cheers
D

jasper
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by jasper » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:45 pm

Well that feels better:) it does mean one would have to get m4l.
I've always wanted that anyway.
Thanks

champamoore
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by champamoore » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:32 pm

i think it is a good request, and one i'd like to not have to buy an additional module on top of the upgrade to 9 for.
if you can't share it, it's not yours.
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jasper
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by jasper » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:31 am

S4racen wrote:In M4L you can set the automation of a live.dial to be absolute which does exactly as your asking so it would appear to be possible??

Cheers
D
It's a workflow issue. Even if I did invest the money for max for live,
and the time to work with it, it would only hinder workflow
even more having to make a clone of every knob in Live
just to override the silly 'relative/percentages/offset' method
that Live uses to deal with envelopes and automation.
Just tell one Clip to send to a bus and then listen to every
other clip on that track.
It is a much-discussed, huge workflow hinderance.

CHEERS!

sonicsol
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by sonicsol » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:53 am

+ 1 I'd really like to see the option to choose relative or absolute.

jasper
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by jasper » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:07 pm

sonicsol wrote:+ 1 I'd really like to see the option to choose relative or absolute.
Absolutes would probably come with the ability
to record autos into audio Clips.

champamoore
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by champamoore » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:09 pm

jasper wrote:
sonicsol wrote:+ 1 I'd really like to see the option to choose relative or absolute.
Absolutes would probably come with the ability
to record autos into audio Clips.
double +1!
if you can't share it, it's not yours.
"i don't know if i'm cool or not, but i'm for real." john lee hooker

live 8 suite
XP32 pro/core2duo T6500/4GB/
ni maschine mk1(1.8.2)/edirol pcr-1

Crubier
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by Crubier » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:56 pm

For sure, we need to have the choice between absolute and relative modulation, because both have their advantages and drawbacks.

+1

sporkles
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by sporkles » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:26 pm

Bump!

I was going to request this myself. I love playing around with clip envelopes, but it really is a hassle when a) you can only guess what "33.7 percent" actually represents and b) you have to set the actual parameter to max in order to get the full range.

XHale
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by XHale » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:46 pm

Wouldn't it be easier to just automate the send A knob instead of drawing clip envelopes in all clips if u only need it for one clip 8O

Automation => absolute values
Clip envelope => relative values

I really like the behavior as it is, cause u are able to modulate a filter in a clip and even fade it out at the same time...

sporkles
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by sporkles » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:33 pm

XHale wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to just automate the send A knob instead of drawing clip envelopes in all clips if u only need it for one clip 8O
In Arrange view, sure, but you can't automate parameters in Session view, which is kind of what Live is all about.

XHale
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by XHale » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:07 pm

oh sure, that's true :oops:

bgyomorei
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by bgyomorei » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:02 am

Is there a voting system for features?
Anyway +1 for the absolute value edit in clip automation.

peter181
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Re: Trash the PERCENTAGES/Relative Clip envelopes already.

Post by peter181 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:25 am

+1

can recorded automation be consolidated into a clip? that would be cool too.

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