Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Share what you’d like to see added to Ableton Live.
General Lee
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Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by General Lee » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:25 am

:cry: If Ableton is trying to hold onto it's user base or trying to interest new users via it's "Up and Coming" "New and Improved version 9", "Thanks to all for your suggestions in our New Release", it's done a desperately poor job of it. I've never seen such a lackadaisical sense of communication between a company and it's customers.

I've been trying to hold off on moving my projects to a different platform in hopes that many (even a few) of the fine suggestions made in this forum would find their way into a version worthy of my own personal patience. But Ableton's apparent apathy has worn incredibly thin on my nerves.

I have no more suggestions to make that have not already been wonderfully illustrated a dozen times over in these threads. Ableton Live is a fine program for what it does. But sadly it's a lame duck for all the things it cannot do (though it's tried to convince us otherwise, as have many of it's finest proponents). I speak (for the last time) mainly of it's severely limited "Arrangement View", but of course, they're continue to be many other flaws vis-a-vis workflow.

I commend all who are loyal to Ableton for your patience and perseverance. When Ableton 9 finally comes out in 2022 I hope you will have found it was worth the wait... :cry:

H20nly
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by H20nly » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:44 am

Ableton just called and said "tell him we're sorry for not getting back to him sooner. we mean to make promises about up coming stuff, but keep forgetting".

there was a bunch of laughter in the background and just a dial tone after that. :x

Bagatell
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by Bagatell » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:00 am

General Lee wrote:But sadly it's a lame duck for all the things it cannot do
Well, duh.

Bye.

ze2be
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by ze2be » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:02 am

Its sad sad times when software isnt updated as frequent as we want. What has the world come to?
Maybe its because of the end of the world in 2012 and all. Maybe they dont care anymore. :cry:











:P

dokx
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by dokx » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:00 pm

General Lee wrote: Ableton Live is a fine program for what it does. But sadly it's a lame duck for all the things it cannot do (though it's tried to convince us otherwise, as have many of it's finest proponents). I speak (for the last time) mainly of it's severely limited "Arrangement View", but of course, they're continue to be many other flaws vis-a-vis workflow.
Right, and all the well known producers who use Live don't even realize what a shitty program they're dealing with.

General Lee
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by General Lee » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:02 pm

Updates are one thing. Usability another. If, after using this product faithfully for several years, it was NOT found to be weak/lacking in SO many areas by SO many people, then this particular forum would only have posts congratulating Ableton on the completeness and desirability of Live. Instead...

I wish Live did not HAVE to be updated. I really do...

As for Ableton's apathy, again that point is proven each and everyday. Maybe 2012 really IS the answer for them. :wink:

General Lee
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by General Lee » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:20 pm

dokx wrote:
General Lee wrote: Ableton Live is a fine program for what it does. But sadly it's a lame duck for all the things it cannot do (though it's tried to convince us otherwise, as have many of it's finest proponents). I speak (for the last time) mainly of it's severely limited "Arrangement View", but of course, they're continue to be many other flaws vis-a-vis workflow.
Right, and all the well known producers who use Live don't even realize what a shitty program they're dealing with.
So you're saying that non of these people are ever frustrated by Live at any time on any level? It's shortcomings have NEVER gotten in the way production-wise? They are all perfectly satisfied and "All's well...always"?

The reason I stayed with Live so long is that I, like many of the more famous producers, HAVE found it "usable" (and in truth I didn't want to have re-invest in another DAW). It is unique in it's Session View. But it's standard "DAW" workspace - the Arrangement View - do I (we) really have to say it again? I'd just wish I could have liked it better...a lot better... And this is where - for me (and maybe one or two others) - Ableton has run out of time. :roll:

Thanks again to all who post here...

General Lee
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by General Lee » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:33 pm

...days later...

I've come to accept my error and the futility of my desire for Ableton to live up to it's own hype. Live was never meant to be (and never will be) an actual DAW. My mistake was in believing it could be. Live is a tool for DJs and for the quick development of basic musical ideas (especially in the electronic genres). Duh and shame on me for taking so long to admit this to myself.

I'll be moving to the Nuendo 4.3 platform thanks to a great deal I got on a blowout price for this 'older' package at a local music store. Have used it now steadily for almost a week and it's superiority over Live as a tool for conventional composition is incredible. Got more done in 3 days than I accomplished with Live in several months. Just a completely different paradigm and a much more workable interface (check out the beauty and ease of use of windowed editors for instance).

I'll keep Live around for use as a tool because of it's Session view. Actually, if Ableton were to strip the "Arrangement" view completely and just sell Session View as a VstPlugin they'd probably do quite well with it. Thanks to all for allowing me to vent and happy music creating in future... :wink:

S4racen
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by S4racen » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:55 pm

General Lee wrote:...days later...

I've come to accept my error and the futility of my desire for Ableton to live up to it's own hype. Live was never meant to be (and never will be) an actual DAW. My mistake was in believing it could be. Live is a tool for DJs and for the quick development of basic musical ideas (especially in the electronic genres). Duh and shame on me for taking so long to admit this to myself.

I'll be moving to the Nuendo 4.3 platform thanks to a great deal I got on a blowout price for this 'older' package at a local music store. Have used it now steadily for almost a week and it's superiority over Live as a tool for conventional composition is incredible. Got more done in 3 days than I accomplished with Live in several months. Just a completely different paradigm and a much more workable interface (check out the beauty and ease of use of windowed editors for instance).

I'll keep Live around for use as a tool because of it's Session view. Actually, if Ableton were to strip the "Arrangement" view completely and just sell Session View as a VstPlugin they'd probably do quite well with it. Thanks to all for allowing me to vent and happy music creating in future... :wink:
Lol

Cheers
D

H20nly
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by H20nly » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:31 am

General Lee wrote:...days later...

I've come to accept my error and the futility of my desire for Ableton to live up to it's own hype. Live was never meant to be (and never will be) an actual DAW. My mistake was in believing it could be. Live is a tool for DJs and for the quick development of basic musical ideas (especially in the electronic genres). Duh and shame on me for taking so long to admit this to myself.

I'll be moving to the Nuendo 4.3 platform thanks to a great deal I got on a blowout price for this 'older' package at a local music store. Have used it now steadily for almost a week and it's superiority over Live as a tool for conventional composition is incredible. Got more done in 3 days than I accomplished with Live in several months. Just a completely different paradigm and a much more workable interface (check out the beauty and ease of use of windowed editors for instance).

I'll keep Live around for use as a tool because of it's Session view. Actually, if Ableton were to strip the "Arrangement" view completely and just sell Session View as a VstPlugin they'd probably do quite well with it. Thanks to all for allowing me to vent and happy music creating in future... :wink:
all jokes aside... i work mostly in Arrangement view. i record live vocals, guitar, bass etc... and have found that there is a reason why typical linear DAWs seem natural in this fashion... to steal an Apple slogan "it just works". i definitely still have a feeling of being somewhere more professional when i open Cubase (SX3.. at that), but Live gives me something that a DAW of that class doesn't... its gooey elastic feel... as if i have play-doh or clay at my disposal that i just have to sculpt and then carve a bit with a tool or two to make fantastic new shapes. i'm not saying you can't do this with Cubase, Nuendo, Pro-Tools etc. but i am saying i like the rubbery feeling of it all. it's like working with your hands/or controller of choice in a slightly more tactile 'bend as needed' environment. that's a turn on for me because while i have respect for the golden rule i find most other rules worthy of bending.

i still use Sony Soundforge 9. i got a good deal during an upgrade phase (thanks leeds - peace be with you) for some extra things i can't do in Live and i feel like i have all the right tools... for the most part. working with other musicians is irreplaceable and i am my own worse critic, so obstacles are ever present.

i agree that Live should get more of those aspects of sound sculpture translated over... (and yeah, to Arrange view), but i refuse to demand that they rush it.

General Lee
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by General Lee » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:01 pm

H20nly wrote: i agree that Live should get more of those aspects of sound sculpture translated over... (and yeah, to Arrange view), but i refuse to demand that they rush it.
no problem...their not...

Machinesworking
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:48 pm

There is no real reason not to use more than one DAW while composing and mixing music.
People have more than one guitar, and more than one synth, it's not a stretch to think that using only Live for composition, performance, mixdown and mastering is putting a lot on the program. I use Live and Digital Performer, on occasion Logic for composition. Live for performance and DSP Quattro for mastering. I don't see a problem with this. Personally I'm glad that none of my DAWs have been upgraded in about two years, everything is stable and I'm not behind the times yet. :mrgreen:

friend_kami
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by friend_kami » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:04 pm

Machinesworking wrote:There is no real reason not to use more than one DAW while composing and mixing music.
People have more than one guitar, and more than one synth, it's not a stretch to think that using only Live for composition, performance, mixdown and mastering is putting a lot on the program. I use Live and Digital Performer, on occasion Logic for composition. Live for performance and DSP Quattro for mastering. I don't see a problem with this. Personally I'm glad that none of my DAWs have been upgraded in about two years, everything is stable and I'm not behind the times yet. :mrgreen:
wait.
live..
stable?

really?
that's news to me.

Machinesworking
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:47 pm

friend_kami wrote:
wait.
live..
stable?

really?
that's news to me.
Different set ups = different situations. I didn't get 8 until a few months ago, and so far it's well behaved here.

Setup if it helps:
17" Macbook Pro, 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 640GB HD, latest Snow Leopard, 32 bit mode.

Drivers: Automap, NI Audio driver (Kore 1 and Guitar Rig), RME fireface, Logitech mouse, Clockworks MOTU MIDI driver.

Full suite of Ohm Force, NI Komplete 6, Kore 2, AAS, Zebra etc.

I literally have every port filled besides the ethernet port (airport for internet), Belkin USB port with 7 devices attached and the other two USB ports filled, plus a 28" screen on the video out.
I have little crashes with 8, I use mainly AU not VSTs. Honestly DP is less stable, but that's due to Kore I think, it shows up in the crash reports most of the time.

I'm going off here, but I don't get people when they think that VST is more stable in OSX than AU?
All plug in interfaces are a wrapper, whether AU or VST or RTAS etc. AU was literally made to combat unstable poorly ported VST's from the Windows side, Apple wanted something that they could run tests on hence the "AU Validation" tests in DP and Logic. Those tests aren't perfect, but it's something. Live doesn't bother with this, which means you run a further risk. Anyway, that is the first place I would look; if you have Logic you know which plug ins Logic doesn't like etc.

friend_kami
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Re: Giving up on Ableton 9 - Thanks for your apathy Ableton...

Post by friend_kami » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:49 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
friend_kami wrote:
wait.
live..
stable?

really?
that's news to me.
Different set ups = different situations. I didn't get 8 until a few months ago, and so far it's well behaved here.

Setup if it helps:
17" Macbook Pro, 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 640GB HD, latest Snow Leopard, 32 bit mode.

Drivers: Automap, NI Audio driver (Kore 1 and Guitar Rig), RME fireface, Logitech mouse, Clockworks MOTU MIDI driver.

Full suite of Ohm Force, NI Komplete 6, Kore 2, AAS, Zebra etc.

I literally have every port filled besides the ethernet port (airport for internet), Belkin USB port with 7 devices attached and the other two USB ports filled, plus a 28" screen on the video out.
I have little crashes with 8, I use mainly AU not VSTs. Honestly DP is less stable, but that's due to Kore I think, it shows up in the crash reports most of the time.

I'm going off here, but I don't get people when they think that VST is more stable in OSX than AU?
All plug in interfaces are a wrapper, whether AU or VST or RTAS etc. AU was literally made to combat unstable poorly ported VST's from the Windows side, Apple wanted something that they could run tests on hence the "AU Validation" tests in DP and Logic. Those tests aren't perfect, but it's something. Live doesn't bother with this, which means you run a further risk. Anyway, that is the first place I would look; if you have Logic you know which plug ins Logic doesn't like etc.
i rarely ever use any vst plugins. when i do it is less stable though.
i do however do aot of video scoring and sound design and that is a shortcut to crash with live.

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