Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
H20nly
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:22 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
H20nly wrote:^ +1 certain Logitech webcam drivers have been known to wreak havoc with audio as well...

... which is obviously Ableton's fault.

i recently had a hard drive fail on one of my computers... this too, was clearly a result of poor planning by Ableton.
Well in the case that they know there's an incompatibility and do not make it known, or do not inform all their tech support people, then yeah, they get some blame for it.
Not all incompatibility issues that affect only one manufacturer are that manufacturers fault.
I guess the best example I can think of is MOTU and DP, when DP adopted Audio Units over continuing to press developers to develop their own MAS plug in standard, they coded their host support for AU absolutely to spec, and because Apple had in the meantime tweaked the AU plug in developer code to get Logic to behave properly with AU, DP had issues with some AU plug ins. Not at all MOTU's fault.
it's not Ableton's responsibility to keep up with every rinky dink driver that company X, Y, or Z release to control their device. a large portion of the time (such as with Logitech mouse drivers) no third party driver is needed. the OS happens to be "aware" enough of simple pointing devices.

so to be clear... YES, i was being sarcastic when i said:
H20nly wrote:... which is obviously Ableton's fault.

i recently had a hard drive fail on one of my computers... this too, was clearly a result of poor planning by Ableton.
but was dead serious when i said:
H20nly wrote:certain Logitech webcam drivers have been known to wreak havoc with audio as well...
how do i know this?? because i found out the hard way... when i went combing through the far corners of the internet i found some lines of text supporting the theory... when i tried this left field solution it solved my issue. i passed the info on to someone else and "ta dah!" it helped them too.

from a technical standpoint you have to draw a line in the sand and divide the data into known/good and unknown/bad... Ableton staff should be working on software features that have to do with their DAW application and not have to have an 'Other Devices Liaison' and a team to test every camera, printer, pointing device, cell phone, media player, scanner, card reader, usb stick, children's toy, doo, dad, and hunk of shit that happens to have a USB connector sucking juice from their customer's personal computers.

again, Ableton cannot possibly cover every thing someone can throw at their computer... at some point keeping a computer in order has to be the responsibility of its owner. people want to blame someone else though... so to top it off with a car analogy; they have to be forced to check the emissions on their vehicle, because if left up to them, that black smoke coming from the tail pipe is simply something they leave behind them while they chug on blindly, bare knuckled, gripping the wheel, and slamming the gas to get wherever it is they think they are taking themselves with no regard or sense of ownership as it pertains to the vehicle/means by which they travel.

check your own engine.

Machinesworking
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:26 pm

H20nly wrote:
from a technical standpoint you have to draw a line in the sand and divide the data into known/good and unknown/bad... Ableton staff should be working on software features that have to do with their DAW application and not have to have an 'Other Devices Liaison' and a team to test every camera, printer, pointing device, cell phone, media player, scanner, card reader, usb stick, children's toy, doo, dad, and hunk of shit that happens to have a USB connector sucking juice from their customer's personal computers.
Not going to repeat my analogy, but here's the gist of it: Not every problem hardware drivers and hardware has with Ableton will be that hardware manufacturers fault.
In most cases yes, the blame lays on Logitech and the likes shoulders, but Ableton is not filled with perfect code or perfect coders who have to wade through other peoples mistakes, sometimes a new feature of theirs will break a standard that Microsoft or Apple set for implementing controllers to their computers, and at times Ableton will have to bug fix their own software for it to work. I think the issues Ableton had with 8 perfectly validate the simple assertion that Ableton is made up of mere mortals, and that they can be the cause of instability issues.

My main point was that it's up to you unfortunately as an individual to figure out what the problem is, in some cases you might be able ascertain what part of the system isn't working properly, but IMO most of the time we as end users will make unintended false accusations. There are multiple layers of possibilities for problems, hell, Logitech could be adhering strictly to Microsofts and Apples code guidelines for mice etc. but in real world applications it causes problems. So in that scenario we have a company that adheres doggedly to the guidlines, but doesn't beta test with our particular set ups, and corporations that allow by omission conflicts between drivers and applications. In that case who is to blame? In this scenario it's obvious I blame Logitech, but you get my point! :wink:

To sum up, it's unimportant who's at fault, it's more important that you get your own system working as best as it can. Some people had working configurations of Live 8 from day one, so it's up to you to decide what hardware and software you want to work with once you figure out where the conflicts rise from. Though it was a hilarious schadenfreude moment when all the people with "perfect" systems suddenly started complaing about bugs when Ableton publically admitted to Live 8 not being as stable as they wanted it to be! :twisted:

H20nly
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:36 pm

:lol:
Machinesworking wrote: My main point was that it's up to you unfortunately as an individual to figure out what the problem is, in some cases you might be able ascertain what part of the system isn't working properly, but IMO most of the time we as end users will make unintended false accusations.
mine too! :wink:

Machinesworking
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:46 pm

Just trying to be clear, I know you get it. :)
But if we can avoid the blame game as uninformed end users and concentrate on what works to make our systems work as best they can within the confines of knowing that bugs exist in 99% of the software out there, then we can avoid endless threads about X problem being Y's fault when we really don't know for certain what is causing X problem, I would be fucking thrilled. 8)

parable66
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by parable66 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:53 pm

Dont worry Ableton. I still Love you!

luddy
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by luddy » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:51 am

funken wrote: Can't you do that with Live? I don't see the phone has anything to do with Live vs Studio One. You have a vocal melody on Soundcloud. You can import that into Live and create the Midi from it with Melodyne. I don't see the difference.
Of course you can do it with Live and Melodyne. And it will work just as badly as it will using Melodyne with Studio One. You'll discover what everyone using MIDI output from Melodyne does, that it's full of bad timing and little annoying artifacts, and by the time you clean up all that sh*t you'll kick yourself for not playing the melody in on a keyboard, like anyone with common sense would. :roll:

Anyone who dumps Live and buys Studio one to be able to use Melodyne as a MIDI sequencing tool has rocks in his head, IMO.

-Luddy

hedflux
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by hedflux » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:26 pm

Studio One does look very impressive, the automation tools are amazing! Ableton doesn't even curves yet.

I do find it odd and slightly worrying that despite months, maybe even a year or two of pressure from customers, and increasingly fierce competition in the marketplace, Ableton haven't even announced what they are working on, or what they're planning for the future. All we get is new partner instruments!

To be fair though, Ableton is still serving me very well, it would just be nice to have something new to look forward to!?

H20nly
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by H20nly » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:31 pm

hedflux wrote:To be fair though, Ableton is still serving me very well, we just DEMAND an announcement of something to look forward to!?
fixed.


it's not like they hung a sign on the door "CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE". the thing to look forward to is what ever they plan on next. i didn't see the part in the EULA that states that they will keep us apprised of every little notion and idea they have via the web, but i clicked "I Agree" anyway.

pencilrocket
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by pencilrocket » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:09 am

hedflux wrote:Studio One does look very impressive, the automation tools are amazing! Ableton doesn't even curves yet.

I do find it odd and slightly worrying that despite months, maybe even a year or two of pressure from customers, and increasingly fierce competition in the marketplace, Ableton haven't even announced what they are working on, or what they're planning for the future. All we get is new partner instruments!

To be fair though, Ableton is still serving me very well, it would just be nice to have something new to look forward to!?
Live is live tool. It's tweaked precisely to work best on the stage. Arragement tab is just supplementary for this main purpose - Session view. It does great job for this purpose, I see no need to compare with other sequencer....
Image

jasper
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by jasper » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:39 am

gorillaknuckles wrote: Where is the 64 bit support? (god this hurts, I crash all the time with big projects)
Even though it wouldn't hurt, there are bigger fish to fry than 64-bit support.
(and you don't crash 'all the time'. if you do , it's not Live). My computer is on the old side and Live takes a beating with tracks and racks, etc.
gorillaknuckles wrote: Why is the interface not improving? Where are you guys? You used to rock the DAW.
The interface probably is improving, you just can't see it yet. Where are they? They're rocking the DAW as you put it, no doubt.
gorillaknuckles wrote:I'm really on the fence right now.
Get off the fence you'll ruin your ballbag.
gorillaknuckles wrote:I'm already checking out the demo ((of StudioOne)). This could be the end of something great. How sad.
Awesome! Check out the demo, and buy it, and use it, and love it, and make great music with it and have fun, and
keep it, and add it to your "something great" arsenal of Music Software.
BTW...NOBODY uses/owns/and only exclusively uses just one DAW.
You usually have your "Big main one", and another one, and some others that you check out and make stuff on but know it'll never be your main one."
I'm liking Live for many unique things that other ones don't do. Needs work but it's a great thing.
gorillaknuckles wrote:How sad.
Go to the convenience store and buy a bag of tissues (or just sneak over to the coffee counter and shove some
napkins into your pocket). Grab me a large, sugar, no milk. Thanks!

friend_kami
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Re: Studio One is leaving Ableton in the dust.

Post by friend_kami » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:55 pm

H20nly wrote:
hedflux wrote:To be fair though, Ableton is still serving me very well, we just DEMAND an announcement of something to look forward to!?
fixed.


it's not like they hung a sign on the door "CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE". the thing to look forward to is what ever they plan on next. i didn't see the part in the EULA that states that they will keep us apprised of every little notion and idea they have via the web, but i clicked "I Agree" anyway.

tbh, the thing to look forward to would be to see whether they actually ship the features they claim or not, since they failed on that the last time around.

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