I literally can't believe this is missing....

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msintros
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:32 pm

I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by msintros » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:07 am

The ability to route midi from one track to ANY device on another track. I just found out this evening that the arpeggiator does not show up in the list of devices that you can control from a separate track. So if you have a track with an arpeggiator controlling a synth and you want to have a different track sending messages to that arpeggiator, that's simply not possible. WHY? Every other device appears. As I see it, for this to be the case, you would have to program it NOT to recognize specifically the arpeggiator! Come on guys. If this weren't the kind of thing I have come to expect from this program, I would think it was a bug, but with all the other "exceptions" to your own rules (no pitch control automation for each clip?? Really...) it's starting to feel like you take away these little capabilities for no reason only so you can have fodder for future additions.

pepezabala
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Location: In Berlin, finally

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by pepezabala » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:09 am

i think you'e doing something wrong. I can route midi wherever I want to. Can you make a screenshot or a better description of your issue? we might be able to help you.

msintros
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by msintros » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:52 pm

pepezabala wrote:i think you'e doing something wrong. I can route midi wherever I want to. Can you make a screenshot or a better description of your issue? we might be able to help you.
i have no idea what i could have been doing wrong, but trying this again today it does work....

the arpeggiator still doesn't show up as a destination in the pulldown for midi track outputs, but it does effect whatever it's hooked to. what i can't figure out is why last night when i was doing this the arpeggiator was having no effect whatsoever? if it didn't look distinctly different when it was turned off, i would say that was probably my problem.

i guess this might remain an unsolved mystery.
Last edited by msintros on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

simmerdown
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Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by simmerdown » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:56 pm

why not just dup the arp and put it on the other track, easy

msintros
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by msintros » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:06 pm

there is indeed something weird going on here... i'm trying to hone in on exactly what it is that's going on. in certain circumstances, this does and doesn't work.

to answer your question, there are reasons why i wouldn't want to put the arp in the other track as you're talking about, but for now i'd like to assume that this is the way i want to do it and live should be able to accomplish it.

msintros
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by msintros » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:11 pm

ok, i've figured something out. this is indeed messed up, unless someone can explain this to me in a way that makes sense.

to duplicate the problem i'm having, do the following:

* create a blank project
* create two midi tracks
* on track 1, put an arpeggiator and a synth
* on track 2, route the output of the track to the synth track
* on track 1, set the monitoring to "in"
* record enable track 2 and start playing notes on it with a keyboard

the synth will play using the arpeggiator

* on track 1, set the monitoring to "auto"
* play some notes on your keyboard

notice the keyboard still plays the synth, but the arpeggiator no longer works.

WHY??

doghouse
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Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by doghouse » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:29 am

Try record enabling track 1 as well.

crumhorn
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by crumhorn » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:50 am

msintros wrote:ok, i've figured something out. this is indeed messed up, unless someone can explain this to me in a way that makes sense.

to duplicate the problem i'm having, do the following:

* create a blank project
* create two midi tracks
* on track 1, put an arpeggiator and a synth
* on track 2, route the output of the track to the synth track
* on track 1, set the monitoring to "in"
* record enable track 2 and start playing notes on it with a keyboard

the synth will play using the arpeggiator

* on track 1, set the monitoring to "auto"
* play some notes on your keyboard

notice the keyboard still plays the synth, but the arpeggiator no longer works.

WHY??
solution: group the arp and the synth together in an instrument rack and you will be able to send MIDI to the input of the rack.

explanation:

For this to be happening as you described you must have the bottom "MIDI To" chooser on track 2 set to the synth instead of the track input. And you must have "MIDI From" on track 1 set to "All Ins". When monitor is on in track 1 the synth is receiving MIDI via two routes : track 1 input via the arp and track 2 input direct to the synth, with monitor on auto you just get the direct input from track 2 to the synth

When you select the instrument instead of the track input then the track monitoring selector on track 1 is bypassed.Also if you inserted a midi clip on track 2 and tried to record it on track 1 then it wouldn't record anything.

The anatomy of a MIDI track is: Track Input -> Monitor Switch -> Midi Device Chain -> Instrument -> Audio Device Chain -> Track Output.

You can send MIDI from another track to either the Track Input or the Instrument.

But the instrument can be an Instrument Rack - so all you need to do is group the arp and the synth into a rack and you will be able to send MIDI to the input of the rack.

I suppose there must be some technical reason why they can't merge in MIDI at the input of any MIDI device in the chain, but only at the track input or the input of an instrument (or instrument rack). It might just be an oversight.

What is interesting is that MIDI From can pick up data from any point in another tracks MIDI chain.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

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pepezabala
Posts: 3499
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Location: In Berlin, finally

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by pepezabala » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:03 pm

maybe it's because if you send midi to a track, then it automatically hits the first device. Unless you selct a following device. But it doesn't make sense to list the very first device, as the midi goes there automatically, unless you select something different.

crumhorn
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by crumhorn » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:59 pm

You can only send MIDI to the track input or to the synth, not to any midi device in between.

The only way to do it is to group the effect and the synth together in an instrument rack then you can send to the input of the rack.

By nesting instrument racks you can get to any device in the chain - like this

Image
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

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crumhorn
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: I literally can't believe this is missing....

Post by crumhorn » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:26 pm

Did you get it sorted?
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

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