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 Post subject: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 170
Okay so we all went in for beat the clock competition.
It was really fun to do.
And the prizes are attractive !
I mean, lifetime Ableton products ! It's a dream for all of us.
Then as we read between the lines we understand there's no jury just some rubbish social network licking to get votes.

Comment from one of the top three disappeared but it said in substance : "I got all my family and community and people at college all together to make me win"

Quote from Daft-e (Actual second with 501 votes) : "HEY EVERYONE! WANT TO MAKE MONEY SITTING ON YOUR ASS? Just go to: http://www.XXXXXXXX.com/ and type this in as your invite code - 2Q6U resolve captchas and make money! Ideal for students and mothers at home. ;)


What I would like to know is what people from ableton actually do think of the music they're going to promote as top of the top. Because I personnaly do feel it's no good and that is not what I think of ableton and of the tremendous possibilities of the program !

So get in the contest but you have to have an advice on music ! don't be just nerds with an economic battleplan !


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:56 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 3
Hey there,

i also think, that there are some issues with the contest.
First of all, that spamming is unbearable. And I have the feeling, that I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Secondly, The top-three list on the front page is doing no good at all. I actually graphed the data:

Image
(hope this image stays online for a while - note, it only shows top-50).

It was/is clearly visible, that the top-three guys where WAY ahead of anyone else - and two had very low contest-ids. This might lead to the conclusion, that they got into the top-three at early times and stayed there, because their tracks a constantly on the front page, thus more visible, thus more plays, thus more votes.

I must say, that I really like at least one of the tracks in the top three - but I still find it very odd, that exactly those three tracks stick out that much.

But there actually is a jury: "The prize winners will be selected from the top 25 tracks by M83, Junior Boys, Nosaj Thing plus the Ableton and SoundCloud contest committees." - but you have to get into the top 25 for that.

They probably should do the following:
- do not show the votes.
- get rid of the top-thee list at the front-page
- only count votes, if the voter has votes for at least two other tracks

Or they could do something like face-match, where the users are confronted with two random tracks and have to choose wich one is better. (hmmm, nice idea - I should build that :D )

Never the less: I really enjoyed the contest - Might the poorer musician win :D

Groove on
-- Ben


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:49 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:34 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Then as we read between the lines we understand there's no jury just some rubbish social network licking to get votes.


You've got it totally wrong. There will be a jury. It's just that they will only judge the top 25. There's really no promotion incentive to be in the top 25 (except for 1,2,3) with a crap song because it won't even get you more Sound Cloud listens. The other two songs aside from Mr. Bill's songs are really just directing traffic to some other website. Those songs are garbage. I mean seriously garbage.

Basically, this part of the comp is just to weed out the really bad stuff. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked. It's fed traffic to 2 artists (and I use the term loosely) that are completely worthless and contributing nothing. Conversely, many great artists will get cut out of the top 25 because they haven't done their social networking. I think that next time Ableton should limit votes to people only with a valid Ableton serial number. It's a bit harsh and excludes people outside the Ableton community, but at least it makes this whole think less farcical.

I guess this says a lot about the state of the music industry right now. It's totally not about the quality of the music, it's about being really @#$#ing loud and attracting lots of attention. There is hope though! Mr. Bill is both a brilliant producer and good at social networking. So, i guess the message to everyone is, build both skills! They are both necessary in this game.

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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:15 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:41 am
Posts: 2
Perhaps if your track is voted on, or you vote on someone else's track, both tracks get a "bump" up to the front page? And vote count is hidden?


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:23 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 170
thanx for your replies. It lifts my mood.

Beschulz, your propositions are really good and interesting.

I know a jury couldn't possibly listen to the huge amount of entries.

But the actual fun of the contest is completely spoiled with the spamming-flirting to get a vote.
I really do not agree that artists should be judged on their capacities to overwhelm social network.
It might be for non-confirmed artists an obligation to do so. But at industry level it is managed by other people. So that importance is relative to economic meanings.

So Let's judge skills and music not "referencing" and "spamming".

Thankx for reading this conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:04 pm
Posts: 1
Totally agree with you guys here. I saw the same thing happen on a Beatport contest some time ago. And even though I wanted to believe that quality sells itself, i had to give up on that after a while, because it was obvious that this was not he case. The same kind of spamming is going on now. In fact, i already got a reaction from someone when my track was online for literally 10 seconds. Too bad....

Displaying the "top tracks" is even worse, because some people check only those tracks. And those tracks have a lot of votes because they have been online longer. Strange system.

Hopefully things will work out, because I really like this concept, and think it is a great initiative by Ableton. But the spamming part is really ticking me off. I'm not going to lower myself to that sucking up-level, and just comment on the ones I like, without putting a link to my own track. Nice to see that there are still many people that do the same. But this is not really a fair contest like this....


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 2
I agree with the topic. I just see it as two ways to compete. 1. Public-Social 2. Jury

My personal favor is number 2

BUT

Every musician must be skilled, but needs an audience

Is there sound when nobody is there to listen. It is a ying/yang/thingy i guess...


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 2
Please also note that the competition is a marketingtool for Soundcloud and Ableton - So sharing and spamming by users, voters and competitors is a cheap way to promote themselves - I think we must trust the people at soundcloud/ableton to take proper care of the competition - Why should the elect the worst track?


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:53 pm 

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm
Posts: 3457
Come on guys, just don't participate... Music is not a competition...

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Mac OS 10.6, L8 and L9, M4L.


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 170
I agree with most of the above. And I think you can count on the people to promote their tracks on the so-called "social networks" anyway. Don't we all do ? "Hey guys, listen to my track, I'm proud of it...".
So I don't think Ableton nor Soundcloud needs more than that positive buzz.

Spamming is not a good promotion. It gets on peoples nerves. And disapoints most of the people in this contest.
I think the prizes and the contest itself, with the soundcloud account as a start is enough positive buzz for ableton and soundcloud.
But Making the servers overheat with spam ?


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 170
@chapelierfou.
Je préfère t'écouter en live que lire tes réponses sur ce sujet : )


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:52 pm 

Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 7:49 pm
Posts: 4
erikomic wrote:
@chapelierfou.
Je préfère t'écouter en live que lire tes réponses sur ce sujet : )

Ah ah

Being a beginner, I appreciated this contest that forced me to finish a track.
If spamming is ugly, know that you can un-vote for someone :)

I found the "networking" part of the contest OK, it's necessary today to know how to diffuse your sound, and this contest showed it in a way.
If you're French, check http://virginieberger.com
She explains this really well.



- contest.ableton.com/tracks/1236 -


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:34 am
Posts: 1
ah, it's a weird competition. I wish there was a way for every single entry to be judged but I know that's not possible.
I just feel a little gutted as I was really proud of my entry, but because I don't have many soundcloud followers/friends who have soundcloud accounts I couldn't get crazy amounts of votes. At some points I did feel like spamming, but I decided against it. Popularity contests are annoying!

But, contests aside, it was fun. It was interesting to see how I worked in such a small time frame and checking out what other people could come up with.


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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12590
There is a pleasure to be derived from creative competitions, but for me it's not in competing but in forcing me to work differently, and treating the competition as an exercise for my "real" endeavours.
As an example: I used to do a lot of photoshop competitions and that experience really improved my photoshop skill-base. It's the same with musical competitions, for your own benefit you may as well complete the task simply as an autodidactic exercise. Looking for some kind of validation through these things is a road to producing lowest-common-denominator product. Has American Idol ever produced a truely unique talent, or piece of work? Nah.
However, it's still fun to have a go at competitions, as long as you don't aim to "win" them, use them as a doodle pad instead. I didn't enter his particular competition though.

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 Post subject: Re: A beat the clock competition with a Jury !
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 2:24 pm 

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm
Posts: 3457
Angstrom wrote:
There is a pleasure to be derived from creative competitions, but for me it's not in competing but in forcing me to work differently, and treating the competition as an exercise for my "real" endeavours.
As an example: I used to do a lot of photoshop competitions and that experience really improved my photoshop skill-base. It's the same with musical competitions, for your own benefit you may as well complete the task simply as an autodidactic exercise. Looking for some kind of validation through these things is a road to producing lowest-common-denominator product. Has American Idol ever produced a truely unique talent, or piece of work? Nah.
However, it's still fun to have a go at competitions, as long as you don't aim to "win" them, use them as a doodle pad instead. I didn't enter his particular competition though.

i do agree that working with constraints is somehow positive. i just think that you can define your own goals and give your own objectives, without the need of taking part of a competition (which above all seems to be an advert in disguise).
On the other side, it could be fun to see what other people do with the same material. i didn't downloaded the pack, don't really know the rules, so i couldn't tell much more. i didn't mean to sound rude, or judging or whatever.

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Mac OS 10.6, L8 and L9, M4L.


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