FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
Dragonbreath
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by Dragonbreath » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:36 am

What are you guys getting for latency at 44.1 with 128 buffer 24 bit

Im not the one freaking about my latency.
I just suggested what i believe would give him the lowest possible latency.

H20nly
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:52 am

^ no, no... i agree with you general assertion, but i don't agree that you HAVE to have hella expensive shit to get there...

i'm at 44.1 at 192 samples getting 7.35 in and out and 14.7 ms overall latency... inaudible.

at 128 i get 11.5 ms overall... the track i'm working on plays with no pops or crackles, but right now it's just a bassline and two drum racks... so i haven't put that buffer setting to the test.

having said all that, don't get me wrong... i WISH i had an RME audio interface.

Dragonbreath
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by Dragonbreath » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:15 am

See 14.7 is way too long for me!

I play guitar like him and i understand were hes coming from, it is like playing 15 feet from your amp. Literaly (sound travels about 1 feet per ms)

You have to get good gear if you want GREAT latencies.

I get 10.5 roundtrip at 44,1 128 and its still a bit too much for me.

My friend has the ufx and the latencies made me gizz my pants!

Something like 4ms round trip at 44,1 128 wow!!!

luddy
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by luddy » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:13 pm

The OP's post at gearslutz (which goes into more detail) says that Live has a "philosophy" concerning latency that differs from other DAWs.

Most of the recent responses say something like: get a better computer or interface for lower latency.

How is that a philosophy of Ableton's?

I still don't understand what the supposed difference between Live's handling of latency and, say, Logic's or ProTools. Inbound and outbound audio are aligned almost perfectly -- within a few samples -- using my interface, and with all interfaces I've tried in the past. Mostly RME. I assume that's the general experience of Live users with decent interfaces. Where's the philosophical peculiarity?

-Luddy

simmerdown
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by simmerdown » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:10 pm

Dragonbreath wrote:See 14.7 is way too long for me!
no doubt, for rec of live instrument, thats unnacceptable

Dragonbreath
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by Dragonbreath » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:46 pm

Theres no difference on "philosophy" he just doesnt understand the issue at hand

H20nly
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:33 pm

simmerdown wrote:
Dragonbreath wrote:See 14.7 is way too long for me!
no doubt, for rec of live instrument, thats unnacceptable

i don't see that. i play the bass and don't have a problem. i don't think latency is something that one person's ear perceives better than another.

i also posted another number... when i lowered my buffer to 128 i got 11.5 ms round trip.... but i never bothered to lower it before replying to this thread because i never needed to... the latency isn't there.

simmerdown
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by simmerdown » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:17 pm

i wonder if there is another factor that comes in that does not show in that latency calculation number that live gives? that it sounds better than that number?

as a test, put a 14.7 ms track delay on one track of a finished tune, can you hear that? i sure can

H20nly
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:33 pm

hmmmm... not at home right now... so can't check, but maybe you're on to something... direct monitoring????


i dunno, but my Axiom 25 and my MPD24 don't have audible latency when i play them either. :?

Dragonbreath
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by Dragonbreath » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:10 pm

If you play softsynths the input latency doesnt matter, only the output, latencies lower then 10ms are hard for the average person to hear, 10ms is the limit of usable for me, obviously the lower he better

A entirelly itb musician doesnt need as good a sound card because hes not going roundtrip

H20nly
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:22 pm

can you really hear 14.7 ms (roundtrip) when you play your guitar while recording in Live?

i'm not implying that you cannot, but if you can... i'm wondering what is different then... cuz something has to be?? i can't hear it... i hit record, then sit and fiddle on my bass for 5 or 10 minutes... stop, then play back and pluck out the stuff i like and ditch the rest. hearing latency would drive me mad. i can't play like that.

Dragonbreath
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by Dragonbreath » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:40 pm

Yes i very much can, it drives me crazy.

Its possible ableton is reporting the wrong latency.
Do you a pc with asio4all?

I have a friend who had that configuration that reported higher then what i could hear.
It also depends how you monitor. Are you monitoring software?

Like i said 10ms is about the threshold for most people.
Lower then that should be decent
Higher then that starts getting annoying

simmerdown
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by simmerdown » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:45 pm

4 ms is the documented limit of perception, this according to Levitin, not me...10 ms is probably ok, but i suspect h20 is getting better result than the number it is reading...14 sounds like an echo to me... i suppose if its sounds fine when monitoring (for me headphones) then its all good, if it aint broke....

H20nly
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:54 pm

no on the PC i use the ASIO TC Near driver (provided with the interface). on the Mac, CORE Audio.
Dragonbreath wrote:. Are you monitoring software?
if you mean DAW vs. inputs on the mixer... i have that set in between both... as in this picture:

Image

on the row of three nobs (top to bottom)... the knob on the bottom is what i think you mean.

before this mixer i had an Alesis MM8 firewire (i used ASIO4All)... before that... lets just say it didn't matter. it's probably something i'm not fully understanding or haven't experienced in the proper settings vs. environment... or as you mentioned... Ableton Live is reporting the wrong latency perhaps. i don't have another physical reference (interface) to cross check against, me being 100% right here implies you and simmerdown are way off... since the numbers aren't close enough for it to be subtle. regardless... i'm not hearing latency, which is the most important thing in my ears. :wink:

so please forgive me if i've muddied the waters. i was trying to help the OP via my experience not confuse matters.

H20nly
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Re: FIX latency in line with other DAWs?

Post by H20nly » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:44 am

ok fwiw... i came home and decided to play with my mixer settings. i'm currently at 44.1 24 bit... 96 samples... 5.17 in and out and 10.3 ms overall. i've been recording bass for a while... after playing on my keys - i decided to use a VST to take it further, AAS String Studio. no latency, no pops, no crackles, no RME.

i only mention it because i believe this is within the range you call acceptable.

i'm not sure if this changes anything in light of what was posted earlier, but i'd be happy to read your thoughts regarding it...

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