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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:40 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 3
We have the year 2017... and guess what - still no mouse wheel support.

Every crap plugin has this little fine feature, but ableton still sleeping or ignore user wishes for better usage.

Maybe its time to move to a modern DAW? I mean, its not impossible to activate mouse wheel support ... oh maby for ableton it is because of inability.

But the standard answer from ableton is always: we have barely resources and work hard to implement new things... bla bla bla. Even small things like mouse wheel support you cant implement, so what are you doin all the time? Only PUSH? lol Edit: In german we call this 'Armutszeugnis' :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
crock80 wrote:
We have the year 2017... and guess what - still no mouse wheel support.

Every crap plugin has this little fine feature, but ableton still sleeping or ignore user wishes for better usage.

Maybe its time to move to a modern DAW? I mean, its not impossible to activate mouse wheel support ... oh maby for ableton it is because of inability.

But the standard answer from ableton is always: we have barely resources and work hard to implement new things... bla bla bla. Even small things like mouse wheel support you cant implement, so what are you doin all the time? Only PUSH? lol Edit: In german we call this 'Armutszeugnis' :lol:


Which exact crap plug-ins? What can you do with it? Most plug-ins aren't zoomable.

A standard answer from Ableton? No answer, yes. An answer? I don't believe that for a minute. Proof?

Also, what makes you think Ableton should support something as antiquated as a mouse? Who's using a mouse when there's trackpads with gestures that don't work in Ableton? It's such a more convenient way to not be able to zoom and pinch.

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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:19 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 3
Stromkraft wrote:
crock80 wrote:
We have the year 2017... and guess what - still no mouse wheel support.

Every crap plugin has this little fine feature, but ableton still sleeping or ignore user wishes for better usage.

Maybe its time to move to a modern DAW? I mean, its not impossible to activate mouse wheel support ... oh maby for ableton it is because of inability.

But the standard answer from ableton is always: we have barely resources and work hard to implement new things... bla bla bla. Even small things like mouse wheel support you cant implement, so what are you doin all the time? Only PUSH? lol Edit: In german we call this 'Armutszeugnis' :lol:


Which exact crap plug-ins? What can you do with it? Most plug-ins aren't zoomable.

A standard answer from Ableton? No answer, yes. An answer? I don't believe that for a minute. Proof?

Also, what makes you think Ableton should support something as antiquated as a mouse? Who's using a mouse when there's trackpads with gestures that don't work in Ableton? It's such a more convenient way to not be able to zoom and pinch.


Before you start writing, read better about this topic - specially about first post: THA-REAPER explained lot of usefull examples how to use scroll wheel. And I also dont speak about a silly zoom function, got it?

I dont need to proof anything, I have that mail from ableton, where I made some suggestions for better usage, they came with a standard answer that they dont have so much resources to implement all user suggestions, no matter how good they are.

In this topic we speak about mouse scroll wheel support, if you have suggetions to trackpads then make a new topic... and if you think most user dont use mouse, then i only can say LOL :D


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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
crock80 wrote:

In this topic we speak about mouse scroll wheel support, if you have suggetions to trackpads then make a new topic... and if you think most user dont use mouse, then i only can say LOL :D


What in the world makes you think Ableton are so stupid to implement only mouse wheel support or that mouse wheel support is in contradiction or even competition with trackpad support?

As I've hinted at to only ask for mousewheel support is both short sighted and near sighted. Widen your perspective, man.

And as for the subject, I got this. I've also voted years ago for this functionality to be implemented. You, on the other hand, can't even contribute with some examples from your collection of crap plug-ins. But basically you say that you can enter values with the mousewheel in most plug-ins and that you can't even be bothered to mention a couple of these. Correct?

I still don't believe your mail message says that as it's totally out of line with how Ableton repeatedly, year after year, handles lack of other functionality, like for instance VST3 support.

I'm not claiming you must be wrong, I'm just suggesting you could put up and enrich the discussion with your personal experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 3
Are you just trolling here or do you mean it serious?

Heres one crap plugin that support it: Kick 2 by Sonic Academy. Try to find the others by yourself... dont be scared its quite easy :wink:

I dont know how to show you the mail from ableton here, but I think you can speak german. So I gonna copy & paste the part. I replaced names with XXX:
Re:(Case ableton1227777) [web] Hallo Ableton Team,...

Hallo XXXXX,

Danke für Deine Nachricht und das tolle Feedback :)

Wir finden Dein Vorschlag auch ganz praktisch, und werden den als Wunsch an unseren Entwicklern weiterleiten, und hoffentlich wird das Feature implementiert. Wir können Dir jedoch nicht garantieren, dass dieses Feature unbedingt eingeführt wird, da es natürlich zahlreiche Vorschläge aber nicht immer ausreichend Zeit oder Arbeitskräfte gibt, um alles zu realisieren.
...
Viele Grüße,
XXXXXXXXX

Ableton Support

When referring to this case, please use the case number: (Case
ableton1227777) from the subject line.

It was from November 2014. And guess what? My tiny suggestion never got implemented. As I said its a standard blabla answer what we get to hear, even if its a small thing like mouse wheel support they aint able or simply dont want to implement it. Others can do such easy things just by the way. But ableton? Nooooooo impossible - maybe it takes too much resources :lol:

And again: This topic here is about mouse scroll wheel support. If you want something bout trackpads, feel free to make a new topic. Of course you can write bout it also here but dont say in the same time mouse wheel support is antiquated, because thats no fact its just your opinion and that dont mean its true!

THA-REAPER's suggestions are just a little coding thing but they give a big impact to the ableton usage.

Hope I got your questions answered, and if not I dont care. From now Im out of this senseless discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:56 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
crock80 wrote:
It was from November 2014. And guess what? My tiny suggestion never got implemented. As I said its a standard blabla answer what we get to hear, even if its a small thing like mouse wheel support they aint able or simply dont want to implement it. Others can do such easy things just by the way. But ableton? Nooooooo impossible - maybe it takes too much resources


Thank you for sharing, crock80. My review of the response you got is that your suggestion was well received and that Ableton as per usual could not guarantee to implement it as there are plenty of other suggestions and that there is "nicht immer ausreichend Zeit oder Arbeitskräfte gibt, um alles zu realisieren". From this you make the erroneous conclusion that your suggestion wasn't implemented because Ableton can't find the man power. What you fail to take into account is all the other improvements in the pipeline.

Given the quality of Live updates since 2014 with some hefty milestones released, I think Ableton still have done plenty with fixing some long standing really major issues with Live 9. I'm not suggesting they couldn't have done more, but I feel this is out of our hands. We can complain about the amount of updates, but what goes into those updates is likely determined both by the level of user requests for certain features and how the development team evaluate needed input for implementation vs benefit for the user base. I'm pretty sure Ableton knows whether we use mouses or trackpads via collected data.

While I agree the functionality we're discussing would be really nice, I find it hard to consider it a major issue.

crock80 wrote:
And again: This topic here is about mouse scroll wheel support. If you want something bout trackpads, feel free to make a new topic. Of course you can write bout it also here but dont say in the same time mouse wheel support is antiquated, because thats no fact its just your opinion and that dont mean its true!


I was being provocative because of the small mindedness of thinking "mousewheel! Only mousewheel!" without any reflection instead of a more broad perspective considering the different input tools available today.

Maybe it's because I have a background as developer that I find it obvious that the functionality discussed when implemented doesn't have to be limited to only mousewheel support. You see to assume that Ableton will have to program their own mousewheel routines. I think you're wrong on that account.

But, I also think that the lack of certain common types of controls in the Live GUI is a somewhat conspicuous omission. It's very possible that for some reason the GUI controls have been made in a non standard way at some point, that possibly requires that OS level, or driver level, routines are overridden or made inoperative. That would explain why controls that work everywhere else won't work in Live where expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:45 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Posts: 161
Location: Berlin
Stromkraft wrote:
It's very possible that for some reason the GUI controls have been made in a non standard way at some point, that possibly requires that OS level, or driver level, routines are overridden or made inoperative. That would explain why controls that work everywhere else won't work in Live where expected.


Exactly this is what i suspect.
Live 9.x WIN GUI still suffers from XGA-Standards.
At 2017.

Just a very little hint from the developers about your supposed reasons
could give us all a deep, relaxing breath and could prevent all other
conspirative suspects.
We could finaly understand...

*S.


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 Post subject: Re: Mouse Wheel Support!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:53 pm
Posts: 6
+1 Billion
Jezzus crust, hard to believe it's almost 2019 and it's not possible to activate a knob or fader with the mouse wheel in what is otherwise innovative world class software.
Ableton is a pioneering company in some perspectives and as backward as a can be in others.

Just about every other piece of media editing software which has some kind of slider or knob adjustment can adjust them with the mouse wheel, some you need to first click on them and the better ones it actives on mouse over.

It's an industry wide accepted norm basic functionality and for good reason, it makes software much easier and intuitive to use.


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