Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
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tristanperich
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:43 pm

Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by tristanperich » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:08 pm

I often have MIDI rhythms besides the regular beat divisions and triplets (i.e. 5-tuplets).

I'd love to be able to set the grid view of a MIDI clip or quantize settings to a non-standard tuplet.

(It seems as though the current choice of regular beat divisions + tuplets could be re-thought in general.)

Thanks.

sambaji
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:40 pm

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by sambaji » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Hi Folks,

This feature was requested over fives years. Yet, with all the amazing bells and whistles that Ableton has introduced since then, there has been no real advancements on the quantize and grid options--e.g., quintuplets and septuplets.

I am aware of the technique of compressing/stretching groups of notes to create non-triplet tuplets. However, this is very time consuming if you want to base a whole groove primarily on septuplets or quintuplets, for example, particularly when the grid guide is limited to either triplets or binary divisions. Using non-triplet tuplets in grooves is not as rare as one may think, and can, in fact, more accurately reproduce the "mysterious" swing feel found in Jazz or other African-influenced rhythms such as Samba. For example, The "mysterious" samba swing, often played on the snare and shakers, can be thought of as a kind of septuplet (a tuplet of seven) swing played quickly. I discovered this for myself by superimposing and comparing grids of various beat divisions--8,6,5 and 7--on a spectrogram of the typical ganza (shaker) ostinato played in samba. The onsets of the samba ostinato sample often matched up with the 1-34-6- divisions of a septuplet, with some slight variances. In many ethic music genres, musicians fluidly move between straight binary grooves and tuplets within the same song. It's these types of subtleties that make human drummers standout from most programmed drum tracks.

A complete variety of tuplets are a standard feature in Notation software, such as Musescore, why not DAWs? The rhythmic limitations of most DAWs is why I generally prefer to compose in notation programs. I say, make Ableton standout from the crowd by adding more tuplet options! Hopefully, this feature request will be passed onto to Ableton's developing team for further consideration. Thanks.

PS: If I was to design a DAW from scratch, I would first focus mainly on developing an user-friendly, flexible grid/quantize system to allow a complete array of tuplets (polyrhythms) in the same clip, simultaneously or sequentially. I might even call the sequencer/piano-roll aspect of the GUI the "Groove Matrix".

Since rhythm is the core of music, it should also be core focus of any DAW.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:38 am

I agree with all of this thinking. More timing features and flexibility would be really useful. I've longed for a groove per voice, or why not shifting grooves per voice since my 6 years of use of Live.

Most aspects can be overcome in different ways but low level, well integrated implementation into the fabric of Live would create new possibilities.
Make some music!

Lokan
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by Lokan » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:55 pm

+1

8E
Posts: 385
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 11:25 am
Location: +ICXC·NIKA+

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by 8E » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:23 am

+1
MacBook Pro (15", Mid 2015), 2,5 GHz i7, 16GB RAM / OS X El C Live Suite 9.7.7 / 10.1.5 + Push 1 / U-PHORIA UMC204HD

jonljacobi
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by jonljacobi » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:09 pm

This is another yin and yang suggestion. It might be interesting, but now you’ve just added several more options to a menu, complicated the grid, and introduced options that most users won’t use and will just get in their way.

You can’t maintain a simple interface if you keep adding options for relatively obscure usage scenarios. This is what other DAWs do and look what you get.

As there is already a way to create any kind of tuplet you want, as you noted, I can’t think this is a good idea.

8E
Posts: 385
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 11:25 am
Location: +ICXC·NIKA+

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by 8E » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:48 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:09 pm
This is another yin and yang suggestion. It might be interesting, but now you’ve just added several more options to a menu, complicated the grid, and introduced options that most users won’t use and will just get in their way.

You can’t maintain a simple interface if you keep adding options for relatively obscure usage scenarios. This is what other DAWs do and look what you get.

As there is already a way to create any kind of tuplet you want, as you noted, I can’t think this is a good idea.
What an answer!
Of course you can still use oil lamp, Tesla didn't need to electrify US in 1900.... Why to go to the Moon, when you still need to walk on your two legs..

That's why some people make great music another don't. You can stick with the binary quantization and continue making "dun-ka" music for entire of your life.
MacBook Pro (15", Mid 2015), 2,5 GHz i7, 16GB RAM / OS X El C Live Suite 9.7.7 / 10.1.5 + Push 1 / U-PHORIA UMC204HD

jonljacobi
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Feature Request: Alternate Tuplets in Quantize/Grid Settings

Post by jonljacobi » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:18 pm

I was attempting to point out that every new feature added increases complexity. And that you can easily create uncommon tuplets using an existing tool. And that you might consider how other people use the program and its primary focus before requesting new features. Or actually, temper your expectations for feature implementations because of those factors.

I didn’t mean to say that uncommon tuplets were bad, just that implemented as suggested they might compromise Live’s usability for many users. If you wish to debate that, fine. But spare me your weak command of facts and network TV wisdom.

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