Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
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JoeOsoDopke
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Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by JoeOsoDopke » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:29 pm

DJ PERSPECTIVE REQUESTS

Allow the DJ to scratch, scrub, move tracks around in real time to a particularly low resolution rate and make this control assignable so DJ controllers with jog wheels (aka 99% of them) can be utilized with Ableton more fluidly; also include nudge feature for better beatmatching
I could then use a DJ controller with live like I would a traditional turntable. Which would be fucking awesome.

Add pitch fader like control and accompany with this a key lock control
This would help with beatmatching and help traditional dj's feel more comfortable with Ableton.

Add cue point functionality and on the fly looping capability
Rather than having to create a separate clip for each cue point I want, and having to create a loop with my mouse by hand, respectively.

Add "Master Tempo" functionality to tracks
This would be a fantastic function in Live for DJ's.

As far as integration would be concerned, I doubt Ableton would ever completely revamp their software to do something like this (if they did, I'd assume they would maybe create a third kind of track?) BUT what Ableton could do is design an Ableton native plugin/vst/whatever which could take care of the functions I listed above and other functions which I may have forgotten to take care of; I'm sure that there would be problems with how the set would look like in the session view if the track scrubbing was used, and so employing a plugin would probably be a great idea.
Honestly, if Ableton could control tracks like Traktor, Serato or whatever else, I know I and many other DJ's would switch completely over to Ableton. I think that Ableton just really needs to appeal to the traditional DJ, because while clip launching is an interesting way of handling tracks, there's a level of flexibility lost which is needed. Along with this, I'm sure a dedicated browser OR a browser revamp to suit DJ needs would be needed as well so that track browsing could be better...

S-N-S
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by S-N-S » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:01 pm

regarding this

Add "Master Tempo" functionality to tracks

the solution could be a "tempo-track"a new kind of track where we can make tempo automations

102455
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by 102455 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:34 pm

Although all that would indeed be very nice to see/have in Live.....I don't think it's ever likely to happen.

I mean, look at the history of Live. How many versions were there before they bothered to hook up with Serato for the huge flop that was The Bridge?

People were expecting to be able to scratch Live clips then too, but nothing changed.

Think about it - has any other DAW got DJ software abilities? Scratching, cue points, a browser that suits DJs? No, because they're DAWs.



I think it's better to start looking for DJ software that has warping functionality. That's more likely to happen.

Traktor's already getting damn close to Live due to its Remix Decks. There are some new boys that look promising too (The One, Flow).

S4racen
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by S4racen » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:43 pm

JoeOsoDopke wrote:DJ PERSPECTIVE REQUESTS

Allow the DJ to scratch, scrub, move tracks around in real time to a particularly low resolution rate and make this control assignable so DJ controllers with jog wheels (aka 99% of them) can be utilized with Ableton more fluidly; also include nudge feature for better beatmatching
I could then use a DJ controller with live like I would a traditional turntable. Which would be fucking awesome.
I'd agree with this, the closest you'll get is with MsPinky or with Deckadance running as a VST....
JoeOsoDopke wrote:Add pitch fader like control and accompany with this a key lock control
This would help with beatmatching and help traditional dj's feel more comfortable with Ableton.
This on the other hand is against the modus operandum (i think thats the right term) of Ableton so i can't ever see it happening, it would be better if we had a way of warping a clip using a turntable input in my eyes....
JoeOsoDopke wrote:Add cue point functionality and on the fly looping capability
Rather than having to create a separate clip for each cue point I want, and having to create a loop with my mouse by hand, respectively.
Don't agree with cue points as you will be limited to a certain number per track a la Serato's maximum of 8... Splitting clips is much better especially when you have automatic follow actions and on the fly looping with max4live (click on the banner below and look at the Modular Series)
JoeOsoDopke wrote:Add "Master Tempo" functionality to tracks
This would be a fantastic function in Live for DJ's.
This is possible again with Max4Live, you'd be able to modulate a clip envelope within a control clip to change the tempo, either on a relative or absolute value....

JoeOsoDopke wrote:As far as integration would be concerned, I doubt Ableton would ever completely revamp their software to do something like this (if they did, I'd assume they would maybe create a third kind of track?) BUT what Ableton could do is design an Ableton native plugin/vst/whatever which could take care of the functions I listed above and other functions which I may have forgotten to take care of; I'm sure that there would be problems with how the set would look like in the session view if the track scrubbing was used, and so employing a plugin would probably be a great idea.
Honestly, if Ableton could control tracks like Traktor, Serato or whatever else, I know I and many other DJ's would switch completely over to Ableton. I think that Ableton just really needs to appeal to the traditional DJ, because while clip launching is an interesting way of handling tracks, there's a level of flexibility lost which is needed. Along with this, I'm sure a dedicated browser OR a browser revamp to suit DJ needs would be needed as well so that track browsing could be better...
The browser is still an issue for me, i have to create megasets for a performance but with max4live i'm not left wanting any of the features of Serato or Traktor... The plug-in you seek is available today....!

Cheers
D

JoeOsoDopke
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by JoeOsoDopke » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:25 pm

I honestly don't know why Live couldn't do any of this to be honest.
Ableton is more than a DAW, as they market themselves as a live performance software for DJ's as well, and so if they're trying to appeal to that crowd, some additions should be made.
Cue Points are limited by the software in my opinion, and if it were up to me, there would be an unlimited amount of them.
What I'm suggesting is Ableton become more of an "all in one" type software.
I'm SO fucking aware that they're going to brush an idea like this off, but dammit, I want my voice to be heard.

102455
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by 102455 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:59 pm

The thing is: The type of DJ that plays out using Live is usually not the type of DJ that does scratching or on-the-fly stuff - and vice versa.

DJs who use Live do so because they can pre-arrange their set and keep everything nicely in sync. Their DJing style is more along the lines of adding FX and a few drum loops over tracks they've spent hours in Live preparing.

On the other hand, DJs who scratch tend to like the whole "winging it" vibe and doing things off the cuff with nothing pre-arranged. They tend to use timecode with either Serato Scratch Live (now Serato DJ) or Traktor Scratch. They dislike software that "mixes for you".


Thinking about The Bridge again, the above is probably a big part of why it wasn't successful. It was a "bridge too far" - the users of Live and of SSL were polar opposites. If The Bridge had worked with Traktor or Virtual DJ for instance (some software which wasn't aimed so much at the vinyl DJs) then it might have succeeded.

HamHat
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by HamHat » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:05 am

I certainly wouldn't complain if there was a pitch fader. Not sure how people have been DJing with out this???

102455
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by 102455 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:27 pm

HamHat wrote:Not sure how people have been DJing with out this???
Er, because Live warps every track to the master tempo.

Some DJs might assign the tempo (or a range) to a MIDI fader so they can adjust
up or down to suit the mood, but the whole idea with using Live to DJ is that
everything's nicely warped and on beat/in sync.

S4racen
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by S4racen » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:44 pm

I think it's fair to say that after a number of years of asking for things like these, they are not going to happen...

The whole concept of pitch faders per track is against the paradigm of what Live was designed for, primarily for composing and performing your own tracks out live...

I know many many DJ's that use it very successfully in a more traditional sense and there's many ways of doing what you are looking for...

http://vimeo.com/isotonikstudios/isotoniknine

http://vimeo.com/isotonikstudios/isotonik-nine-part-2

http://vimeo.com/isotonikstudios/isoton ... part-three

Cheers
Darren

_estibi_
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Re: Better Functionality as a DJ Software

Post by _estibi_ » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:20 pm

JoeOsoDopke wrote:DJ PERSPECTIVE REQUESTS

Add cue point functionality and on the fly looping capability
Rather than having to create a separate clip for each cue point I want, and having to create a loop with my mouse by hand, respectively.
+1
that would be really nice
Add "Master Tempo" functionality to tracks
This would be a fantastic function in Live for DJ's.
I use a whole Live session as a third virtual 'turntable' and use global tempo control mapped on my APC40 knob.

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