Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:07 pm

LFO8 wrote:

That's real good work but not like the way it works in Logic. With Logic you only have to Shift-Option any midi clip and boom, you have an alias clip that exactly mirrors the original clip. More convenient imo.
Alias Clips is actually dead easy and quick to use. You select a clip and choose "inherit" then any manual copy you make the usual way is automatically added to the group of clips that mirror each other, also in Arrangement with the exception of Arrangement recorded clips as that is making new clips.

The only thing I really miss is to able to change clip groove settings on all clips, but that is Ableton's choice to not include in the API for developers.
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Able_Belamy
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Able_Belamy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:59 am

Yes, please add it. Every time I arrange something, I'm missing this important feature.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:26 am

Able_Belamy wrote:Yes, please add it. Every time I arrange something, I'm missing this important feature.
As much as I understand the need for making test arrangements quickly I'd like to point out you can have clips playing the same parts a little differently each time. Sometimes this works way better than just repeating the clip exactly the same way. I'm just sayin'.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:52 am

antic604 wrote: Depends on music type, doesn't it?
Not at all. Depends on taste and knowledge. There are so many producers, apparently, that assume repetitive means you should repeat the exact same clips in exactly the same way for it to be valid. I suggest this is boring. The best repetitions are slightly different and imperfect, strikingly often also when they appear not to be.
antic604 wrote: If you feel superior because you're applying small variances in your sequences, then by all means do that. I know REAL musicians don't use loops :P But let others have the feature they'd find useful,
What's with you? "I was just sayin'" means what I said is an option to consider. How is that not obvious? Since when is pointing out suggestions for approaches that can work right now, a suggestion that functionality that is requested for any reason should be invalid?
antic604 wrote: This tool provides a workaround for this, but it's not very easy or intuitive to use: http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... lias-clips. One would think that if a random guy on Internet can do it with Max4Live, then surely Ableton can do it much better in Live itself, right?
As I've already pointed out I own and use AliasClips and it's straightforward to use. I just wrote that above, Didn't read that part, did you? Or what are you disagreeing with?

J Garcia aka JGJP is not a "a random guy on Internet". He's a skilled MFL developer that makes great products. Maybe you should try and make something similar yourself in MFL if it's so dead easy?

No-one is questioning Alias functionality wouldn't be great for many users natively in Live, so please stop pretending this to be true.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:11 pm

antic604 wrote:
Instead, if it was implemented natively with some consistent naming / visual scheme or icons, with added browser to manage all that, it would be more user-friendly. Again, I'm not criticising the J. Garcia for what he did, because I can understand there are constraints to what can be achieved via Max4Live; I'm criticising Ableton for not implementing that seemingly obvious and popular feature.
Stromkraft wrote:No-one is questioning Alias functionality wouldn't be great for many users natively in Live, so please stop pretending this to be true.
I've lost you here...
I'm not arguing against this feature request! OK???? It's like you deliberately attempt to misunderstand in order to argue about something we agree on. What's the purpose of that?

The fact is that right now this feature is not implemented, right? Because of this you're forced to explore alternative approaches. Therefore, suggesting alternative approaches for right now is also part of the process. If nothing else it gives people something practical to reflect upon. Something you did yourself. While one shouldn't limit a request to something existing, being aware of the shortcomings of existing methods while acknowledging their existence, is one input source for ideas about how a feature like this could work. Or shouldn't.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:16 pm

antic604 wrote: Agree, but you can achieve this in many ways, not necessarily by moving the notes in a MIDI clip. Why do you want to impose a way of working on others? Who are you to judge someone's preference for repetitive - in your opinion! - music? For a lot of people all electronic music is a repetitive "boom boom boom", for others rock is repetitive with the same song structures (verse, chorus, verse, chorus, break, chorus, etc.) and the same instruments being used.

Alias / ghost / linked clips is a tool like any other and people shouldn't be judged for wanting to use it.
No-one is being judged. That idea is only in your head. That I express my opinion on something is not invalidating other opinions, conflicting or not.

How one apply any variation, or if at all, is obviously up to each individual producer.

And never mind who I am. I know who I am. Do you know who you are?
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GdabZ
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by GdabZ » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:00 pm

Coming from FL Studio I can't help but be disappointed at the lack of patterns or ghost clips.

The fact that it can lead to more repetitive songs (which is not necessarily the case) isn't the issue there. Nobody is forced to use them.

What I find disturbing in live is that Clips in different Scenes can bear the same name while having a different content altogether. I expect the Clip "Beat 1" to be exactly the same wherever it is. And then I do a "Beat 2", "Beat 3", etc. to introduce variations.

I don't have much hope for this to happen as I've seen no feedback from Ableton on the many "ghost clips" "same clips" "linked clips" topics I've browsed. I've read someone in a topic say "I hope they are introduced in Live 7" so it's an understatement that this feature is long overdue.

It's a bummer as I love some other features of Live (like track delay compensation or everything related to audio recording, where FL Studio is way backwards).

Please do something Ableton! Isn't there a ticket system where the users can vote for the next preferred features to come in updates?
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GdabZ
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by GdabZ » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:03 pm

Ouh thanks man. Here have my vote ;)

But yeah there's apparently a lot to be done until this ticket will be considered... Try having the author of this topic put the URL in the first post?
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GdabZ
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by GdabZ » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:50 pm

I'm not sure this will ever be considered. When you're not aware that something cool exists elsewhere, you simply don't need it. As I lack delay compensation for my strings in FL only now that I know it exists in Live...

The industry seems to push towards it though, Cubase, Logic, FL, Maschine all have them. And Maschine is a serious competitor - I guess, regarding Session performance.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:22 pm

Considering this functionality and expanding on the request wouldn't it be great if you could inherit Master clips and you'd still be able to override sections or aspects of the inheriting clip, while still allowing other sections or aspects, of your choosing, to update with changes to the master? Or limit heritage to some parameters?

Like for example, you have a melody in Clip A, and Clip B inherits this, then you override and shift it some semitones in Clip B. Later you adjust the rhythm of Clip A, and Clip B adjusts the timing only of the clip and maintains your shifted notes. All recorded aspects and clip parameters could be involved in this.

I'd love to be able to grow music like that in Live.

Wouldn't we all prefer that when Ableton implements something they go beyond what other DAW makers already have done? And yet implement properly and in a user friendly way?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GdabZ
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by GdabZ » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:35 am

Inheritance would be cool, no doubt, but it's a lot less user friendly, as it is with coding. It adds a tight coupling between clips. If you have an inheritance chain as in C extends B extends A and you modify A, you could have unwanted modifications propagating to B and C. So we would need a "Make unique" function as in FL.

Simple "identical" clips would already be huge. Like when you have a clip A and you copy it elsewhere, it's still A, and any modification to A will propagate to every copy of A, in Session and Arrangement views.
Wouldn't we all prefer that when Ableton implements something they go beyond what other DAW makers already have done?
I'm just asking for the base functionality :lol:

But we need dreamers and people that see beyond that! :wink:
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jestermgee
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Re: Alias/Ghost/Mirror Clips Petition!

Post by jestermgee » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:52 am

antic604 wrote:Bringing this back, since it's still not in in Live 10 (beta, at least).

Vote here: https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... c82da09%7D
Voted!

Would love to see that, been wanting that forever

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