Standalone version of Push (load sessions via thumb/sd card

[jmeginsk]

The ideal for me, and a move that would put Ableton miles ahead of all the competition, would be the launch of a standalone version of the Push:

Here is what I would love to see in the near future:
Push is laid out the same, except perhaps 8 faders like the pac 40
option for an 8 out sound-card (4 stereo pairs + no inputs)
sd card slot for live sessions


This way, one could create their sessions in Live on a laptop or PC. Collect all and save the session to the sd card. Then load the session into the push and perform live with the push as a standalone unit. Imagine rolling up to a gig with just the push in a small bag, plugging into the mixer via 1/4" cables and getting right to work!!!!

[Stromkraft]

The ideal for me, and a move that would put Ableton miles ahead of all the competition, would be the launch of a standalone version of the Push:

Here is what I would love to see in the near future:
Push is laid out the same, except perhaps 8 faders like the pac 40
option for an 8 out sound-card (4 stereo pairs + no inputs)
sd card slot for live sessions


This way, one could create their sessions in Live on a laptop or PC. Collect all and save the session to the sd card. Then load the session into the push and perform live with the push as a standalone unit. Imagine rolling up to a gig with just the push in a small bag, plugging into the mixer via 1/4" cables and getting right to work!!!!

What's the processor that's going to do the actual sound production work that you imagine here?

[tedlogan]

Although it sounds cool, I wouldn't buy such a unit. I'd probably have my laptop with me anyway, so might as well use it along with my standard Push. I'm not averse to using the mouse alongside Push, they compliment each other very well.

I imagine people who play live a lot will really like such a standalone unit though.

[jmeginsk]

Processor could be an intel core. I imagine it would have more than enough power if it was engineered to support Ableton exclusively.

[Stromkraft]

Processor could be an intel core. I imagine it would have more than enough power if it was engineered to support Ableton exclusively.

Well, this is akin to Ableton getting into the music computer business. I'm not sure about the viability on that. You can dream…who knows?

[Z Wolf]

So this might seem kind of crazy, but a man can dream.

I think the best thing that could possibly happen with Push and Ableton is if the Push 3 (or 4) could operate standalone. Imagine working on your live set, getting everything set up the way you want to perform, then porting your project files over to the Push and leaving your laptop behind when you go to your show.

I'm not a coder or a hardware designer, but this is certainly possible, right?!? All they would need to change about the hardware would be add a couple USB IN ports for your controllers and lights and audio interface, and give it some RAM and a little hard drive (64-128GB? And maybe an SD Card slot for expansion?)

Honestly I can't think of a single feature request I want more than this. I would LOVE to leave my laptop at home...and I would gladly pay the extra few hundred dollars to see this kind of functionality.

I know third-party VST's might complicate matters, but I for one do my best to use mostly native plugins on my performance sets anyway. And if they couldn't make that happen, I don't know about the rest of you, but that's a sacrifice I'd definitely be willing to make.

Anybody have any thoughts? Also a bunch of +1's would be nice! Help me convince Ableton to do this!!!

[dreamer55]

Actually, I think it's the most clever way Ableton could go in a future.

Look at new Akai MPC X and MPC Live - they work standalone and in a controller mode with the Akai's own MPC software, have amazing touch screen for everything incl. audio editing (which is essential and which Live is still can't do for no reason, I ask Ableton again WHY NO AUDIO EDITING IN CLIPS!!!??? ), have multiply audio / midi / cv ins and outs, OK, Akai's software is not so advanced as Ableton's, there are some limitations and I don't think I want to learn the new interface, so for me at the moment they are not competitors at all, but in a future it could change.

Well, Ableton worked with Akai before on Push 1, so maybe it's time to get back to the old friends and cook something together? Considering the price - personally as an owner of Suite and lot's of M4L devices I would pay between 1K - 2K for such a "hardware" Push "PRO" with a touch screen. I guess the only thing Ableton need is SERIOUSLY rethink/rebuild the audio engine and come with a such hardware solution. It could be KILLER!

People can think about Live as a dj program or kind of a special DAW for their machines, but for the people like me it is a musical instrument, performance tool, a sound source with it's own cons and pros and individual characteristics, so such a controller / hardware implementation would bring the whole idea to the new level and maybe let not to look somewhere else. And of course - such a hardware could have limitations comparing to the software version (limited track / instrument amount in a project, only native effects, etc... ), I would love to see such a "Push Pro" as a better controller for all of the Live functions + possibility to export project into hardware and work on it / play with it without computer (same idea as with MPC ).

[eclipxe]

Guys, I don't ever see this happening.

1. You'd either need to put an x86 processor in the device or port Ableton to ARM. Very difficult task. An x86 chip is expensive and requires cooling and a lot of power.

2. In the new MPCs it's just sample playback - no synths! Ableton would likely not support its built in synths or vsts - the computing power just isn't there unless you're taking several thousands of dollars.

3. You would really need a touch screen

While appealing, I think the limitations would make it a non starter. The MPC does a fraction of what Ableton can do and the MPC community is used to a standalone. The Ableton community is used to power and flexibility - a standalone Push would have trouble in the market.

[Tarekith]

Whilst a dream, it would be pretty fun. One of my favorite things about Push2 is just how nice it FEELS, like a lot of thought and care went into designing it. In terms of construction and looks, it's easily one of t

Not sure how practical or useful it would be, but having the option to treat it like a completely standalone instrument would definitely be pretty cool for me.

[dreamer55]

Guys, I don't ever see this happening.

1. You'd either need to put an x86 processor in the device or port Ableton to ARM. Very difficult task. An x86 chip is expensive and requires cooling and a lot of power.
2. In the new MPCs it's just sample playback - no synths! Ableton would likely not support its built in synths or vsts - the computing power just isn't there unless you're taking several thousands of dollars.
3. You would really need a touch screen

While appealing, I think the limitations would make it a non starter. The MPC does a fraction of what Ableton can do and the MPC community is used to a standalone. The Ableton community is used to power and flexibility - a standalone Push would have trouble in the market.

Yes, got your point, but I as I told it shouldn't be cheap and "the only ultimate Ableton controller", of course it would be more an expensive alternative to regular Push + Computer combo made for musicians who came from hardware world. What's why I used "Push Pro" name . Maybe you're right, and nowadays technology is still not powerful enough for such a solution, but I notice that a lot of people right now think in that direction, another example is Synthstrom Deluge machine from New Zealand. It has a powerful sequencer, synths, sampler, effects inside, unlimited tracks. It's clear that they copied some ideas from Live and wanted their machine to replace Live in some way. Still it's very limited and not so finished I think (but it was made only by 2 guys, so with a crew and resources Ableton has it should be much easier ).

And touch screen - I guess it's the future of the Push anyway. At the moment I use iPad sometimes to control Live, but all those apps (Lemur with a template and TouchAble ) aren't so stable and still feel like a "crutch" between you and the program and got lots of problems with the interface. Actually I think Push 2 is not perfect as well (best solution now 100%, but with a lack of functionality ).

I guess in a future Ableton should come out with different controllers for different tasks - maybe a DJ controller / Studio controller with a possibility to work with a timeline and mixer for mixdown, etc... / Music or Beat making controller / and a Standalone Push 2 covering all the parts. If correctly designed this should be really a serious step into "pro" world (where flexibility, hands on control and power is really needed ). of course it shoud cost a lot, but as I told a lot of pros would be happy to pay for it. I guess Ableton is thinking about it, when M4L was implemented it was a clear sign that Live is no more a "clip launching" dj application but a powerful tool for sound design, customizable instrument for different tasks and kinds of music. I want to see Ableton moving forward to this direction and don't stop with current success.

[Z Wolf]

Guys, I don't ever see this happening.

1. You'd either need to put an x86 processor in the device or port Ableton to ARM. Very difficult task. An x86 chip is expensive and requires cooling and a lot of power.
2. In the new MPCs it's just sample playback - no synths! Ableton would likely not support its built in synths or vsts - the computing power just isn't there unless you're taking several thousands of dollars.
3. You would really need a touch screen

While appealing, I think the limitations would make it a non starter. The MPC does a fraction of what Ableton can do and the MPC community is used to a standalone. The Ableton community is used to power and flexibility - a standalone Push would have trouble in the market.

Yes, got your point, but I as I told it shouldn't be cheap and "the only ultimate Ableton controller", of course it would be more an expensive alternative to regular Push + Computer combo made for musicians who came from hardware world. What's why I used "Push Pro" name . Maybe you're right, and nowadays technology is still not powerful enough for such a solution, but I notice that a lot of people right now think in that direction, another example is Synthstrom Deluge machine from New Zealand. It has a powerful sequencer, synths, sampler, effects inside, unlimited tracks. It's clear that they copied some ideas from Live and wanted their machine to replace Live in some way. Still it's very limited and not so finished I think (but it was made only by 2 guys, so with a crew and resources Ableton has it should be much easier ).

And touch screen - I guess it's the future of the Push anyway. At the moment I use iPad sometimes to control Live, but all those apps (Lemur with a template and TouchAble ) aren't so stable and still feel like a "crutch" between you and the program and got lots of problems with the interface. Actually I think Push 2 is not perfect as well (best solution now 100%, but with a lack of functionality ).

I guess in a future Ableton should come out with different controllers for different tasks - maybe a DJ controller / Studio controller with a possibility to work with a timeline and mixer for mixdown, etc... / Music or Beat making controller / and a Standalone Push 2 covering all the parts. If correctly designed this should be really a serious step into "pro" world (where flexibility, hands on control and power is really needed ). of course it shoud cost a lot, but as I told a lot of pros would be happy to pay for it. I guess Ableton is thinking about it, when M4L was implemented it was a clear sign that Live is no more a "clip launching" dj application but a powerful tool for sound design, customizable instrument for different tasks and kinds of music. I want to see Ableton moving forward to this direction and don't stop with current success.

+1.

It seems like a lot of people are so quick to just say "guys, this isn't going to happen" when that's just an assumption, and a pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me. Just a few years ago, I never would've imagined all the things we can do with our phones, but here we are. And while I'm on that topic, I think Ableton and Apple have a lot in common...they've both revolutionized their respective industries by pushing the envelope on what we thought was possible with our technology.

I believe very, very much in the team at Ableton. And I think if they wanted to pursue the avenue of making the Push a standalone device, they could totally do it, and do it elegantly. (And if you ask me, the benefits of a standalone Push are too tempting to not pursue!)

I should also mention that I originally started this thread two or three days before Akai officially announced the MPC Live, so I wasn't trying to draw comparisons to that. And while I'm on THAT topic, I have to say that the new MPC and its inherent limitations only makes me want a standalone Push MORE. It seems like a very cool machine, but nothing compared to what the Ableton folks could do, in my opinion.

Lastly, @eclipxe, isn't this just a feature request forum? I started my post with "a man can dream", and I'm just throwing my vote out there to Ableton that this is what I'd like to see in the future. I wasn't trying to start a debate on whether it's possible or not...especially because I believe anything is possible.

[Digital Diezel]

Yes I would definitely by this. Ableton has always been a beat maker's DAW, well the other beat maker psudo-DAWs (MPC Software and Maschine) have put on their big boy paints and have not only stepped up their DAW game but they are also investing in stand alone units. Akai has shown theirs and Native Instruments will be next. I think Ableton needs to do the same. These other stand-alone DAWs are going to remove Ableton from the DJ & Performance scene if they don't have a non-tethered solution. But I don't perform I just make beats, how do I take Ableton on vacation with me or across town without a laptop...I'd have to buy both Push 2 and a Laptop or just one MPC Live.

I think Push 2 has the edge on the Ren and Maschine because Ableton itself is so capable and Push 2's implementation is flawless.

I don't have Push 2 because I only have a Desktop and I need a mobile solution Push 2 is only half way there for my needs...

An MPC Live would be almost perfect for me, the only problem is I need to work in a currently less capable DAW.

I'd certainly prefer to spend my money on a stand alone version of my favorite DAW!!! Ableton Live!!

But the MPC Software 2.0 is looking pretty nice, if I get used to it, by 2.5 or 2.7, maybe its all I need??? See the situation Ableton may be in?

[Stefan Jantschek]

Funny!

I had a similar idea shortly after the release of Push 1.
So I am not seeing this that far away, in case of some variations:

Push Audio

means:

- A lot of support trouble could be avoided if Push has an integrated audio interface.
Maybe Ableton is in negotiation with RME...

Standalone Push performance requires freezed arrangements.
That would:

- Avoid problems with VSTI- licencing.
- No need for hi-end processing power.
- Just the ability to insert memory.

Visionary?

...or just a long way round to create something we already call "Workstation"?



*S.

[Stromkraft]

What I'd like the most is actually the opposite: A hardware box powerful enough to run many synth plug-ins (at least 16) and native Ableton synths as well in high quality mode. I'd still would like a Push style controller for all of these. Obviously there would need to be support for multichannel MIDI and audio over Ethernet, Wireless and digital interfaces, but I think it would unnecessary to put an actual audio interface into such a product.

This aspect is probably the most unrealistic part of this idea. The only one I'd find worth paying for though. There were boxes like this with Komplete for about $2000 recently. Currently "being licensed" possibly.

Running Live on a computer I view as more unproblematic. If Ableton would make a "Live Touch" on iOS and Windows 10, then an iPad Pro or a Surface could be the basic hardware, but somewhat limited in actual power.

To put it all in one simple Push style package probably requires a programming revolution to not get too limited right at the start. Maybe some new multi-core processor light on power requirements paired with a new realtime programming paradigm?

[dreamer55]

Running Live on a computer I view as more unproblematic. If Ableton would make a "Live Touch" on iOS and Windows 10, then an iPad Pro or a Surface could be the basic hardware, but somewhat limited in actual power.
?

Live Touch for iOS sounds nice. The dedicated controller/dock for it could be a step between now and 100% hardware Live solution.