Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

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willclarkmusic
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Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by willclarkmusic » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:12 am

I was wondering if there may be any future support for MPE in ableton? I have a Linnstrument and Ive been forced to use bitwig to get the linnstrument performing to its full capabilities. Does anyone have thoughts on this? What are some potential problems? Potential solutions?

I am aware of the workaround with having multiple versions of the plug-in open at once but this makes editing the patch very tedious.

I realize this hasn't been implemented into very many controllers or plugins quite yet, but i think it is the way of the future. I am really enjoying how expressive midi can be with playing an MPE controller. It feels more like an instrument. I even enjoy practicing! :D

For those of you not familiar here is a beta spec sheet for the format: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit
It uses normal midi but the idea is you have each note delivered on a separate channel, complete with a whole set of CC values for each note.

Thanks in advance!

comeonalready
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:53 pm

Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by comeonalready » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:11 pm

I know. Been trying to find info on this topic for a while.. And nothing. Such a shame.. Was trying to use cubase 8 with live in rewire but it doesn't make sense because push and max for live doesn't work then. Also much less stable. And I want to make music in one production environment because I'm into performance based electronic music. Would hate to have to switch to bitwig since I know live pretty well, but what can you do if there's no info on if and when this will be implemented. The workaround works fine for some things but is also too impractical. For now I'm mostly using linnstrument with animoog and recording it as audio in live, whitch is fine I guess.. Or I'm recording on top of a rough mix in cubase using u-he bazille. I would just love to only use live.. Was hoping my cubase days was behind me until I got the linnstrument

jinzae
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by jinzae » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:48 pm

Yep +1 this I would love to see MPE implemented.
The workaround makes live feel like an ancient hardware device being wrangled into the present.

Angstrom
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:49 am

Ableton never tell anyone anything. Its the way they operate.

However, I think its a safe bet that they will factor in MPE for L10.

Reasoning:
  • they have released two Aftertouch based hardware controllers
  • they had a festival of such controllers where people like Roger Linn came to speak
  • all their competitors are including MPE, or have already done so
  • they need to address the aftertouch / sysex situation anyway, because its embarrassing. Might as well do it right THIS TIME.
  • They can feel the stigma of falling behind. It haunts their dreams. At trade shows when they hear the whispered words "you guys are not really innovating any more eh?". They hate it. Haaate it.

I bet €1.75 that Live 10 includes MPE.

davidlukerice
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by davidlukerice » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:56 am

Another +1
Recording with my seaboards is so clunky without native MPE support

Machinesworking
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:32 am

Angstrom wrote: [*]they need to address the aftertouch / sysex situation anyway, because its embarrassing. Might as well do it right THIS TIME.
[*]They can feel the stigma of falling behind. It haunts their dreams. At trade shows when they hear the whispered words "you guys are not really innovating any more eh?". They hate it. Haaate it. [/list]
I hope you're right, but I would place money on them never doing SysEx or NRPNs in Live, maybe allowing M4L to bridge out for it somehow..

The innovation thing, yep, not feeling it lately from them, hopefully something better than a super sized launchpad this time.

doghouse
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by doghouse » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:15 am

Yeah, I am so steamed. The beta spec was released last April (11 months ago!!!) and there's no support in Live yet. We're being reamed here! There's a couple hundred Linnstrument owners who are all going to migrate to FL Studio because of this!!

:mrgreen:

Angstrom
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by Angstrom » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:37 am

doghouse wrote:Yeah, I am so steamed. The beta spec was released last April (11 months ago!!!) and there's no support in Live yet. We're being reamed here! There's a couple hundred Linnstrument owners who are all going to migrate to FL Studio because of this!!

:mrgreen:
But its a bit weird that Ableton are staying away from this new spec. They actually make poly-aftertouch hardware which really needs it. Filtering out all data has not really covered over the fact that we do need to deal with something quite common like poly aftertouch (Push 1 & 2) and sysex (not just Linnstrument) . Don't you think its odd that they didnt join the authors of this spec which solves that exact problem we have

Well. Lets take a casual look at the MPE Spec authors again.

Chris Adam (Apple)
Geert Bevin (Roger Linn Design, Eigenlabs, Moog Music, Uwyn)
Edmund Eagan (Haken Audio)
Amos Gaynes (Moog Music)
Lippold Haken (Haken Audio)
Claes Johanson (Bitwig)
Randy Jones (Madrona Labs)
Roland Lamb (ROLI)
Gerhard Lengeling (Apple)
Roger Linn (Roger Linn Design)
Keith McMillen (Keith McMillen Instruments)
Markus Sapp (Apple)
Ben Supper (ROLI)
Jean-Baptiste Thiebaut (ROLI)

Interesting list. Some Interesting names stand out on that list.
No Ableton input to it though. Of course. Not unless you count Claes.

:mrgreen:

S4racen
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by S4racen » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:38 am

MPE went live in Max 7.2 yesterday... .It's of course been possible before but now it's officially supported with new objects to make life simple for patchers...

Wont help in Live if they continue to suppress the signal...

Cheers
D

kingslim
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by kingslim » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:52 am

+1 for MPE... +1 for at least ETA!

chapelier fou
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:51 am

A big +1 too.
Come on, this is only improving things.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

sunb88
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by sunb88 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:11 am

Hopefully the Max support is a sign of things to come in the next Ableton update.
Ableton supporting MPE will bring even more attention to MPE instruments such as the Linnstrument and Seaboard, just think of what Madeon did for the launchpad (and that didn't even have velocity!)

ArmandoC
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by ArmandoC » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:52 pm

This is what's stopping me from investing in a roli. I'm dedicated to ableton, but now with this free bitwig studio promotion until April 1, might just be enough to to sway me.

PHY6
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by PHY6 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:12 pm

This is gonna catch up really quick.
This video shows that we just have to wait for a standard.

They talk about what to name it, and the use of midi in it's name. What would lead to needing agreement of the Midi standard, allmost like politics...
Hope they decide on this sooner then later.
For many developers it's too soon to decide the route without the standard.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQVUrwy7H0

Angstrom
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Re: Midi polyphonic expression support in ableton?

Post by Angstrom » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:37 pm

I'm just surprised Ableton haven't got a seat at the spec table.
I consider Ableton to be a large player in this area, so I'd expect them to want a hand in drawing up what it is and what it can do.

But then, I'm much more truculent overbearing control freak when it comes to these things. I'd want my fingers in every aspect of this.

Perhaps they just enjoy surprises!

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