Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by login » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:31 pm

Personally I think Live is getting way more development between major versions than other DAWs. For Live 8 they stopped at 8.4 and the new features between 8.0 and 8.4 were few.

This round they have added quite a bit already. I really think they might have some big features for Live 10.

I personally would like more fx and better ones (without M4L), I know very few people would apreciate it.

Willyum
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by Willyum » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:40 pm

I LOVE and have wanted ALL the new features in Live and improvements to Push2. Keep 'em coming!

mekanism1200
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by mekanism1200 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:24 am

All I know is Ableton needs to work on multi-touch support, groups within groups, tabbed projects, better GUI, more window options, and an overall more stable program. Also, if 10 cost an arm and a leg I will ditch it. I'm waiting for Bitwig to add clip fades then I will probably jump ship anyway unless Ableton blows my mind with 10.

I can care less about Push, dont use it, sold mine after 6 months. Most of the producers I admire dont use a Push and never have, probably never will, many Pro's stick to audio anyway as its much more stable and less taxing on your system.

If Ableton wants to continue adding functions I dont want I will leave, no harm, no foul. It is their company and they will do what they think is best for them. Sometimes a companies path doesnt align with some of their customers and that is fine. I hope I will stay, but I wont be bent out of shape if Ableton's vision of what their DAW should be doesnt align with my own needs.

We all have options, Ableton has competition. Its all good!

pencilrocket
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by pencilrocket » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:42 am

Because Push attracts cool kids.

Just add comping, multi channel pianoroll and a few piano roll tools like quick legato, chop, articulation and etc....
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studiojohnny
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by studiojohnny » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:14 am

Boss: "Hey team, thanks for coming to the meeting today. We're here to discuss the next upgrade for Ableton Live! Very exciting. Team 1, what do you got?"

Team 1: "Well boss, there are two things we could work on. First, we could add a vocal comping solution."

Boss: "Ok, or...?"

Team 1: "Or we could totally redesign Simpler, which already works just fine."

Boss: "Wow. Groundbreaking thinking, team 1. Let's redesign Simpler. This will surprise and delight our users."

Team 1: "Are you sure? It already does it's simple job really well. Seems like a misappropriation of manpower."

Boss: "Nonsense. We'll redesign Simpler! Enough. Now Team 2, what do you got?"

Team 2: "Well Boss, we brainstormed two things: first, we could add the ability to show and hide tracks, like ProTools, so when you have lots of tracks it doesn't become totally unmanageable."

Boss: "Wow, that sounds incredibly helpful and like a feature you'd use on almost every project. What's the other option?"

Team 2: "Hands-on audio routing so you can select ins and outs directly from Push for sampling internal or external audio without disrupting your flow."

Boss: "Hmm. You're very... wordy. Can't you already do that in the DAW?"

Team 2: "Yes."

Boss: "And so this is a very minor convenience feature that will only benefit Push users and only if they're performing live where they don't have time to do it in the DAW and only if they really need to be swapping inputs a lot mid-performance?"

Team 2: "Yes."

Boss: "Perfect. Let's do that. Unless you have something more obscure?"

Team 2: "We were thinking of adding a character like Microsoft's paper clip, Clippy, except calling him Ableton Clive. He just dances on the side of your screen. And that's it."

Boss: "We'll save that for our next big upgrade. You get a promotion. That's genius. Meeting concluded everyone. Great work today."

Synthbuilder
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by Synthbuilder » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:33 am

Ableton Clive FTW

Mind you I'd take Ableton Clive if they'd add overlapping audio and midi clips in one lane. Actually maybe not... 8O

miekwave
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by miekwave » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:30 am

studiojohnny wrote:Why does Ableton keep adding stupid, obscure features (enough with stupid f*cking Push already) while neglecting to add really basic features that other DAWs can do just fine?

Like, if they were building a car, they'd be adding custom rims and keyless entry but forgetting that - hello - the car is missing a wheel and a door. Maybe add the basics first then the fancy stuff.

Next time Ableton has a team meeting and sits down to discuss what to upgrade next, could someone *please* prioritize the list with important features (e.g. Vocal comping, MIDI lanes, etc.) at the top and stupid features at the bottom? And please fire whoever has the final decision currently on what to upgrade next. Clearly they never use their own product.
? - Can you be more specific on features you need?

"Vocal Comping" in Ableton - Record loop, duplicate and move each take on the timeline with CTRL drag then drag the audio region for each take. Workflow improvements would be nice here.
MIDI Lanes - CTRL SHIFT T - insert MIDI rack or M4L and send to anoher MIDI track as MIDI in, Group or stack them next to each other. OR assign controller value to automation lane if CC. Workflow improvements would be nice here.

Also please review top feature request.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=222165
Check out some of my soundtracks. Also Ableton Live Performance video.

ImageImage

Stromkraft
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:28 am

Angstrom wrote:… the majority of their customers like to slice loops into beats and make electronic music that way. It's quick and easy. That's where the market is. I can understand that.
I disagree this is a typical use of Push. I certainly don't work that way. While I don't have a Push 2, I seriously doubt this is what most users think is the core feature of it. Of course some might, but the push is more open ended that what you it credit for here.

The Pushes are — or at least should be — the physical hands-on Instrument panel of the Live DAW. That's how I use my original Push, with quite a bit of help from PXT Live.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by Angstrom » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:50 am

Stromkraft wrote: The Pushes are — or at least should be — the physical hands-on Instrument panel of the Live DAW. That's how I use my original Push, with quite a bit of help from PXT Live.
but for a very typical task for me such as :
  1. put operator in a track
  2. set it to 4 parallel oscillators mode
  3. set Osc 1 to feedback, trigger release
  4. set Osc 2 to 0.5, copy envelope from Osc 1
  5. group and duplicate the chain
  6. In chain 2 add a reverb, group it and duplicate that chain
  7. add a utility to each sub chain, L for one, R for the other
  8. ....
that is going to take me about 30 seconds in Live's gui and I have instant overview over everything I'm doing.

Is it really better or quicker to do it through a letterbox on Push? I mean, I hated doing it that way in the 90s I really don't understand why it would be better now?

Stromkraft
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:58 am

Angstrom wrote:
Is it really better or quicker to do it through a letterbox on Push? I mean, I hated doing it that way in the 90s I really don't understand why it would be better now?
I didn't hate using a Yamaha DX7 even as it was low on rotary knobs. To me the encoders, the pads and the little display of the original Push makes it able for me to not look at the screen all the time. If I dislike something it is the experience of the computer aspect of modern music production that the Push allows me to forget about to the point where it affects my decision making. My music is literally at my fingertips just as with any other Instrument and because this instrument is the studio, i e Live, that's what I'm controlling with the Push and my motorised Alphatrack fader.
Make some music!

Matt_Quinn
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by Matt_Quinn » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:11 pm

Synthbuilder wrote:Ableton Clive FTW


Definite lol from me.
the_planet wrote:Trap music is not supported in the current version.

irrelevance
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by irrelevance » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:42 pm

stringtapper wrote:
ChangoM wrote:Why is improving Push and its integration into Live such a priority?
Because Live was never envisioned as a normal DAW, even from the beginning. The earliest versions said "Live Sequencing Instrument" on the box.

But people see track lanes and faders and automation and assume it's supposed to be working just like Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc. and that Ableton just hasn't quite figured out how to make it into a "real" DAW.

Nah. They made what they wanted to make, and for them Push is the current step in Live's evolution. I don't personally use it, but for some reason that doesn't keep me from seeing and understanding why they're doing what they're doing. It's not a mystery.
:idea:

irrelevance
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by irrelevance » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:44 pm

mekanism1200 wrote:All I know is Ableton needs to work on multi-touch support, groups within groups, tabbed projects, better GUI, more window options, and an overall more stable program. Also, if 10 cost an arm and a leg I will ditch it. I'm waiting for Bitwig to add clip fades then I will probably jump ship anyway unless Ableton blows my mind with 10.

I can care less about Push, dont use it, sold mine after 6 months. Most of the producers I admire dont use a Push and never have, probably never will, many Pro's stick to audio anyway as its much more stable and less taxing on your system.

If Ableton wants to continue adding functions I dont want I will leave, no harm, no foul. It is their company and they will do what they think is best for them. Sometimes a companies path doesnt align with some of their customers and that is fine. I hope I will stay, but I wont be bent out of shape if Ableton's vision of what their DAW should be doesnt align with my own needs.

We all have options, Ableton has competition. Its all good!
:idea:

irrelevance
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by irrelevance » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:45 pm

Opposing views, rationally stated, no beef. Close thread. :lol:

snakedogman
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Re: Why does Ableton keep adding new features that no one wants?

Post by snakedogman » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:39 pm

Though Live may once have been envisioned in one way, that doesn't mean it hasn't grown to be something else (too) by now. You cannot deny that Live is directly competing with other "traditional" DAW's for writing and producing music, and a large part of it's userbase uses it as such. I don't think it should be used as an excuse that Live omits certain features that would be beneficial to this function, just because it was "envisioned" as something else.

Perhaps it would be better if Ableton at some point split their product into Live on the one hand, where development is much more focused on live performance and further Push integration, and a new sibling of Live that will focus more on the DAW/studio/production side of things, instead of trying to have one product cater to all purposes.

That said, the fact that we're getting some cool smaller features in point updates for Live 9 doesn't mean that a lot of bigger features for both aspects of Live won't already be long in development for Live 10.

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