My reason of not buying the Push Controller

[Thomasch]

Hi folks,
To be true, i don't like the way you go with Ableton Live and the "Push Contoller".
While i think the "Push" is a nice piece of hardware, i can clearly see, this hardware is limited in most circumstances to the numebr 8.
8 tracks, 8 macros, etc...
Seems that there are a wide range of applications that won't fit with the magic parameter 8.
The next thing is, that a typical music production needs way more than 8 tracks.
In most productions you need 8 tracks and more only for the drums and while the Push stops showing more tracks at once, a usual production starts ramping up tracks at this point.
And that is bullshit and limits to much for productions nowadays.
I know, i can shift parameters forth and back with the push to get some kind of "floating point" device with more than 8 tracks/macros/etc. but that sucks.
The point is, that i can see that further developments of Ableton Live will be limited by the abilities of the "Push Controller".
The moment you release a stackable 16 or 32 track version of the push with motorfaders and minimum 4 encoder rows per track, i'm in within seconds to buy the device.
But the actual push is nothing more than a sophisticated toy.
I don't need toys with endless fiddling to shift things forth and back and deep diving into display subpages.
I don't need toys, i need tools.

[sillyrobin]

It's always best to know what you're talking about. Ableton push is an extremely useful controller.
Also it covers everything that you claim it does not. You're a beginner or not really cut out to use such a sophisticated device.

There's also a third party software that works along with it.
http://www.nativekontrol.com/PXT-General.html
This makes it compatible with other platforms as well and turns it into a standard midi controller with the melodic scales included. Also with a variety of other functions that might be beyond your comprehension as well.

[Thomasch]

It's always best to know what you're talking about.

Ok, my post was not really clear written and my english skills are a little rusted.
But i will try to explain it a little better.

Ableton push is an extremely useful controller.
Also it covers everything that you claim it does not.

I never said it's not useful.
What i'll try to claim, is that it has only 8 columns with only 1 encoder per column.
I can see that Live maps lots of it's parameters in a intelligent way to only a handfull of physical controls.
I know, you can control basically every parameter with it, but you are always limited to 8 physical encoder controls, or 8 tracks at once. The UI is way to spartanic for my taste.

I own a Novation Launchpad, which shares the same matrix size of 8x8 buttons and it suffers from the same limitation.
E.g.: Imagine a set with 16 or 32 tracks in it, Push is not able to show all tracks at once.
Everytime you want to access a channel which is not in the actual visible 8 tracks range, you have to shift the red rectangle forth/back and you will automaticaly loose simultaneous controller access and visual feedback of the other tracks left and right.
Its still not possible to start a clip on track 1 and another one on track 15. (Except, i start all clips in the row at once.)

What i want to see, is a xxxl version of Push, with 16, 24 or 32 tracks/columns.
More rotary encoder rows woul'd be welcomed too (think of the Mackie Control C4 or the Behringer BCR2000 with 4 rotary encoders per column).
Also some motorized 100mm faders coul'd add a little mixing console flavour and woul'd be a great addition. But maybe that's a little to much, because of their size.

You're a beginner or not really cut out to use such a sophisticated device.

If "beginner" means over 20 years of music production and a audio engineering degree, then you are maybe right...
But maybe it's because my demands goes beyond yours.

[joefrost01]

Although not a perfect solution, you could simply build up a huge control surface by putting LaunchPads side by side and Behringer BCF2000s underneath each one.
Still relatively cheap, includes 100mm motorised faders and will happily give you 32 tracks of control. This would cost roughly £350 per each 8 strip module meaning the 32 channel version would be a bargain at £1400.
There is a Max4Live module that lets you stitch together different controller boxes in Live so that they move all together and relative to each other.

[S4racen]

Here's the BCF Script... http://isotonikstudios.com/sigabort/bcf-xl/

And to sync them together with the LaunchPad.... http://isotonikstudios.com/isotonik/launchsync-series/

It's literally the best modular setup you can get for performing in my mind...

Cheers
D

[joefrost01]

And if you don't need the motorised faders then consider an Akai MidiMix - they're only £60 instead of £200 for the BCF2000 and they feel pretty solid and just work. Very basic though, just pots rather than encoders and short throw faders but a lot of controls for the price, especially if you're buying multiple units.
Another alternative which will tile together perfectly is a LaunchPad Pro plus LaunchControl XL at £350 per 8-channel module. If I had the desk space then I'd probably go for a 24 channel setup based on those as it gives you a lot of bang for buck.