Ableton Forum

Machinesworking wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:13 pm

it's MIDI implementation has always been extremely limited, no NRPN

Good news on that front. Check the notes for some of the latest beta's.
https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-10-beta/

Long story short: CC Duplicates are not ignored anymore, there was a bug with crossbleeding of CC's and the resolution got a bump at lower sample rates (on windows it was needed). You can't draw an NRPN in a tidy single envelope. But so far recording and playback NRPN/RPN seems to work.

hoffman2k wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:55 pm

Machinesworking wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:13 pm

it's MIDI implementation has always been extremely limited, no NRPN

Good news on that front. Check the notes for some of the latest beta's.
https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-10-beta/

Long story short: CC Duplicates are not ignored anymore, there was a bug with crossbleeding of CC's and the resolution got a bump at lower sample rates (on windows it was needed). You can't draw an NRPN in a tidy single envelope. But so far recording and playback NRPN/RPN seems to work.

Cool! I would rather be wrong in my skepticism on whether we get MPE for sure.
MIDI Quest solves my SysEx longing, and it would be fantastic if Live got MPE support for sure.

lets hope this is the start of many small changes to come, enabling MPE eventually

Looking forward to get mpe. It´s unbelievable that they still not taking care of this.

shameless bump because

How have you still not fixed this?

Every so often, I plug in the ROLI again in the hope that anything works better. The setup is still the most painful implementation I can imagine. There are people on Github who came up with a better way of doing the setup, at least, and they cracked that problem two years ago. As for using it with Equator... Sure, I could *play* stuff in if I make the absolute perfect performance, but forget editing the notes or the automations. I'd like to be able to buy other MPE software like Falcon, or at least use MPE with the other VSTis I already own, but that's not on the cards.

I get really sick as an Ableton user of waiting years to get things like VST3, and here's yet another thing to annoy me. How long will I wait for this? A year? Three? Five? Makes me feel like moving on to a different sequencer.

n9 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:44 pm

People inside Ableton have been pretty upfront that implementing MPE means a complete rewrite of the MIDI and MIDI clip components of Live, which is some of the oldest code in the codebase. It is a VERY expensive feature for them to implement because of this and is the kind of thing that could trigger a need to rewrite even larger amounts of code. My theory (as a Product Manager person in software) is that because of this the cost/value proposition of MPE just isn't anywhere high enough to justify the expense in time and money to do that rewrite and so they are waiting until the cost v benefit equation changes to do it....

I can usually see those arguments, but we pay £539 to own Suite. It's a self-defeating argument, how many people seem to want it versus how much it's worth to the company. As long as it's famously borked in Live, you can't really measure the demand or make a cost/benefit analysis. The apparent demand for VST3 was zero until we finally got that support, because it was pointless for Live users to buy the format. As the amount of hardware and software supporting MPE ramps up, and as long as it's a feature Live claims to support, they should... support it

That's the better of the two possibilities I'm thinking of. The worse is that the MIDI code is so central and so old that they have been trying to rewrite it for a couple of years to update it to do a few things, including implementing MPE, and they have been unable to get the work done as changes in that part of the codebase are breaking everything.

We have seen both of these scenarios play out re: MPE on many software projects -- other DAWs, instruments, etc. For example: Omnisphere has a poor MPE implementation because they do not want to rewrite the core engine -- it would cost too much, so they hacked a workaround. Zebra2 cannot be updated to be MPE so they are going to include MPE in the completely rewritten from scratch Zebra3, which Hive was written such that implementing partial MPE spec was pretty easy to do. Live is looking more and more like a Zebra... needing a dramatic rewrite.

Again my 2 cents (someone that waited from 2017 to Jan 2019 for MPE support and then went elsewhere.)

Yeah, good points. Thanks for your reply!

i just bought a bunch of eurorack and an expert sleepers fh-2, a product coded by one single person, that handles mpe perfectly fine

its a joy to use, now lets hope ableton gets their shit together and ads support for mpe

Please make MPE support real in Ableton Live ASAP

So, this was a deal breaker for me. I'm switching away from Ableton Live to a DAW that supports MPE. Now, what DAWs have great MPE capability? I'm split between Reaper and FL Studio? Don't have a Mac, so Logic is out of the question.

beavertank wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:46 pm

So, this was a deal breaker for me. I'm switching away from Ableton Live to a DAW that supports MPE. Now, what DAWs have great MPE capability? I'm split between Reaper and FL Studio? Don't have a Mac, so Logic is out of the question.

I would have thought Bitwig was the obvious replacement. Most MPE developers like Roli & Linn seem to demo with Bitwig.
It has a lot of similarity to Live, but also has some additional features like the modular environment etc.

Just ordered the Osmose, so I'm really looking forward to some compatability!

Demo and check features. Other DAWs can be just as frustrating in their own ways.

I just wanted to emphasize how important MPE is, it’s definitely number one feature I’m waiting for in Ableton. Especially for things like recently released Roli Studio Drums, it’s the next tool in the arsenal that needs it.

I'm just glad I'm too poor to afford an Osmose, because I would be frustrated with Ableton if I had one !

I don’t use MPE a lot, but it does strike me as something Ableton would’ve been all over if it were easy. A bad, but understandable early design decision not to deal with all MIDI data coming home to roost.

Just wondering how everyone would like to see it implemented.