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Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:14 pm
by soundsliketree
I didn't even notice the poll. This issue is important and very timely - with the rise of the Seaboard (pun intended), etc. It deserves to be presented and represented in the most potent way on this forum and to the Live devs. What would be a the best way to do that? With a new poll? In the Feature Wishlist? Thoughts?
H20nly wrote:i understand having this discussion...

but i doubt i'll ever fully understand these Polls where there's one answer, the one the creator of the thread most likely selected 2 seconds after the thread goes live, that is almost the only response.

seriously, "No I don't care" is the only other option. :?

what if i support the idea of MPE support but I am not "avoiding or ditching Live" over the current lack of it?

these loaded selection polls undermine themselves. how can logical people, like software devs, take a poll like that seriously? it seems to me that the poll feature is just a waste of time since it is not gathering helpful information... it just pigeon holes you into one answer or makes you apathetic if you choose otherwise. that's a fail as it pertains to making voices heard.



tldr; i didn't use the poll feature because it's fucking useless on this thread. i bet i'm not the only one.

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:20 pm
by H20nly
:idea: Feature Wishlist with an all inclusive title: Post "YES" if you need MPE support in Live
:idea: create a short poll with *unbiased* answers that represent the user base (not just one perspective)
:idea: stop with the tired old i'm pissed and i'm gonna leave and the but other DAWs chest beating rhetoric and try being objective instead

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:25 pm
by soundsliketree
That's helpful - thanks.
Are you thinking of the "post YES" post and the poll as the same thing or are they two different things?

[For the record, I'm never leaving Live; we're committed life partners - since version 1!]

H20nly wrote::idea: Feature Wishlist with an all inclusive title: Post "YES" if you need MPE support in Live
:idea: create a short poll with *unbiased* answers that represent the user base (not just one perspective)
:idea: stop with the tired old i'm pissed and i'm gonna leave and the but other DAWs chest beating rhetoric and try being objective instead

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:34 pm
by H20nly
well with the Post Yes style thing it's essentially a role call you're after. so ideally, if everyone would keep their comments down to the Yes (plus anything they'd like to say in the same post) then you could literally have a roll call/count of many of the people Ableton would make happy and/or lose by addressing or not addressing the topic.

i dunno... i just really don't understand the [wasted] effort of creating a poll if the answers;
A. exclude large swaths of users that support the fundamental message
B. only serves to paint one extreme (i'm leaving who's coming with me?)

you don't need a poll to change DAWs. you just do it... why announce it? haven't you lost enough time already?
going through the trouble implies that there is still hope in your heart. so why not use the thread constructively and pigeonhole Ableton instead of the forum users??

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:25 pm
by Machinesworking
H20nly wrote:well with the Post Yes style thing it's essentially a role call you're after. so ideally, if everyone would keep their comments down to the Yes (plus anything they'd like to say in the same post) then you could literally have a roll call/count of many of the people Ableton would make happy and/or lose by addressing or not addressing the topic.

i dunno... i just really don't understand the [wasted] effort of creating a poll if the answers;
A. exclude large swaths of users that support the fundamental message
B. only serves to paint one extreme (i'm leaving who's coming with me?)

you don't need a poll to change DAWs. you just do it... why announce it? haven't you lost enough time already?
going through the trouble implies that there is still hope in your heart. so why not use the thread constructively and pigeonhole Ableton instead of the forum users??
I agree, a simple How important to you is MPE support Very Important/Not Important would suffice.
I definitely started looking at other DAWs when I realized how behind in certain key areas I care about, Live (and DP my other DAW to be fair) had become.
I didn't need to announce my imminent departure or include it in posts. More like, "hey look $60 Reaper developed by two people has MPE support!"

Ableton have become glacial in their changes to the software, and without every new user being in awe of Max and toned down about it, you would get more people complaining I believe.
Not trying to belittle their hard work, but when two guys are starting to kick your 60+ employee's ass in terms of feature set, then it's time to reevaluate your priorities.

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:09 pm
by hoffman2k
Since the specs aren't out yet, I'll ask this question: Which DAW nailed MPE support?
Bitwig had the automation per note feature from the start. Does that mean it works with every VST. In that you get a VST instance for every note that requires a pitchbend? Or does it only work with (vst3?) synths that support MPE?

I've played with Equator which gives you 5 dimensions from a Roli Seaboard. But afaik, even the software that supports MPE, only can give 4 of the 5 dimensions. (no support for the pitch coming from the bar below the keys). Unless I missed something.

I'm interested in how the specs describe how to handle two identical pitches from different devices. For example, playing a note from a keyboard and playing the Poly aftertouch from something like Push.

What does MPE support in Live actually mean? Even with MFL, we're still stuck with the retarded one channel per track limit. Does the request for MPE mean getting rid of that limitation? Or copying an already successful implementation of MPE?
And where does MIDI-CI fit into the picture?

As for Ableton slowing down. When were they fast in implementing stuff? I used Plogue Bidule (and later Max) to fill in the lack of MIDI support we've had over the years. Version 10 and it still can't handle Sysex (properly) or RNPN... Which kinda cripples Max and makes the first 15 Max tutorials redundant.

The Linsstrument has the notes close enough together to "wiggle" between them. So does the Roli. What about classic keyboards that have Poly Aftertouch and controllers such as Push? Is there an MPE implementation feature that specifies to ignore "Note Off" for adjacent pads? If so, for how long?
Making Push into an MPE controller is a piece of piss. But its a bit tricky if there is no standard to go by. Which DAW nailed it?

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:19 am
by thomashalp
So MPE was officially released last week!
Fingers crossed, upvote, like and subscribe and let’s hope we get it soon! :wink:

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:49 am
by Stromkraft
thomashalp wrote:So MPE was officially released last week!
Indeed: MMA Releases MIDI Polyphonic Expression (MPE) Specification (musicplayers.com).

With Ableton's current track record with PolyAT, MPE will be added in 2036 at best. Get your hopes up!

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:58 pm
by dohill06
Please Ableton, I just bought a Seaboard and it's making my head hurt thinking about how to make Equator work with Live.

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:11 pm
by ArmandoC
With Ableton's current track record with PolyAT, MPE will be added in 2036 at best. Get your hopes up!
lol so true

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:29 am
by thomashalp
Have been eagerly awaiting each new ableton 10 update but this is getting really frustrating now :(

Any word on this?

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:44 pm
by soundsliketree
+1

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:17 am
by Stromkraft
While we're waiting, and waiting, I wonder what are your thoughts on how to best edit MPE and PolyAT data?

What are your impressions from other DAWs that have this support?

Wouldn't Ableton have to revitalise the MIDI editor in order to make MPE happen in Live?

How would they best balance ease of use and fast results also with complex and musically meaningful edits in your opinion?

Re: MPE support.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:54 pm
by Angstrom
Stromkraft wrote:While we're waiting, and waiting, I wonder what are your thoughts on how to best edit MPE and PolyAT data?

What are your impressions from other DAWs that have this support?

Wouldn't Ableton have to revitalise the MIDI editor in order to make MPE happen in Live?

How would they best balance ease of use and fast results also with complex and musically meaningful edits in your opinion?
I think I've said this before, and possibly in this thread. But Bitwig have one of the best MPE editing UIs.
I think that's one of the primary reasons all the major MPE manufacturers use and partner with Bitwig.
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Re: MPE support.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:42 pm
by Stromkraft
Angstrom wrote:…Bitwig have one of the best MPE editing UIs.
I think that's one of the primary reasons all the major MPE manufacturers use and partner with Bitwig.
Yes, interesting. Thanks for resharing your point of view. Do we have any examples of other implemented features where Ableton could possibly have been inspired by Bitwig? Or is it so good they will just have to accept it as a standard by now and come up with something better that still makes a lot of sense?

I'm not very good keeping up with other DAWs. I simply don't have the time so have to rely on others.