Consolidate clips in session view

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JuSchu
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Location: Wuppertal (Germany)

Consolidate clips in session view

Post by JuSchu » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:05 am

It would be nice if you could merge several clips into a single one in the session view without switching to the arrangement.
Just select multiple clips from the same track, right click, consolidate.
Then the old clips are deleted (or not, perhaps that's something for the preferences) and the first one is replaced with a clip in which the content of all the selected clips is concatenated with no breaks in between. So if you want breaks, just make the clip before the break longer.

Why?
Composing different parts of a melody or chord progression and then connecting them is something you do in the phase of collecting basic ideas for the song. But for many users, that phase takes place in the session view and not in the arrangement view. When you have to copy clips around that stops your creative workflow and ideas in your head could get lost.

wearemindflux
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by wearemindflux » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:25 pm

This would be cool This sounds like merging tracks.

But you can just copy and paste which is not much hassle.

JuSchu
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: Wuppertal (Germany)

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by JuSchu » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:09 pm

wearemindflux wrote:But you can just copy and paste which is not much hassle.
Just like copying the clips to the arrangement, consolidating them there and copying them back, it interrupts your creative workflow more than just selecting and consolidating them over the context menu. When you copy and paste notes you always have to take care to paste them at the right position. Where's the right position depends on if you selected the notes (that don't start on 1) or if you selected the whole time frame of the clip.

wearemindflux
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by wearemindflux » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:30 pm

Yeah totally

JuSchu
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: Wuppertal (Germany)

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by JuSchu » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:15 pm

Oh, and of course copy&paste doesn't work with audio clips.

G-Pop
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Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by G-Pop » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:01 pm

OK Admittedly I never really use Session view;
I'm not a DJ, so I do everything with Live like an Audio Engineer would

I am somewhat familiar with the concept though, and I THOUGHT that one of
the BIG benefits of Session was that you can have multiples of clips in various
scenes... Anywhere you want them. Any way you want to play them.

BUT, if you select clips "Willy Nilly" and consolidate them to a NEW clip,
(and new sample) wouldn't you potentially cause problems with instances of
pre-consolidated clips? I may be wrong because the consolidated clip shouldn't
be destructive, but I don't know; seems to me you could be chasing your
tail trying to figure out what happened to some of the clips, or, fixing them
in some way.

I am reading more about session view because I see a potential to use it for
multiple versions, say, of an ending, or a lead / break, or drum break / Bridge.

G Pop
Live10std. Win8x, 8G ram, Scarlette 2i2[1stGen] & ASIO[2ndGen]-KorgN5, M-audio MIDI, various guitarz!
Without skillz, we're all just Monkeys with Shotguns!

JuSchu
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: Wuppertal (Germany)

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by JuSchu » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:01 am

G-Pop wrote:I'm not a DJ, so I do everything with Live like an Audio Engineer would
I was DJing with Ableton for a while a few years ago, but I didn't when I was starting to use Live and I'm not DJing right now. However, I always used the session view more than the arrangement view. It's not just great for live performances (that don't have to be DJ performances) but also for sketching out the basic idea of your song and composing its different parts without already having to think about the final song structure.
G-Pop wrote:I THOUGHT that one of the BIG benefits of Session was that you can have multiples of clips in various
scenes... Anywhere you want them. Any way you want to play them.
Yes, triggering all your clips and trying our new combinations is the big benefit of the session view. Of course, the idea behind this is not to consolidate all the clips in every track so you basically have a whole arrangement in the session view. It's more for the case where you notice that a few clips work well together when you trigger them in a certain order. Or you can practice a longer melody on the keyboard in shorter parts, then record those parts separately and consolidate them to the final clip.
G-Pop wrote:BUT, if you select clips "Willy Nilly" and consolidate them to a NEW clip,
(and new sample) wouldn't you potentially cause problems with instances of
pre-consolidated clips? I may be wrong because the consolidated clip shouldn't
be destructive
If you don't want it to be destructive, it doesn't have to. As I wrote it could be a user preference if the old clips will be deleted. And in the case of an audio clip already today Live is never overwriting the old file but creates a new one. So other clips that are using that file will still work.
And in the end, this won't be any more destructive than what's already possible in the arrangement view. This idea isn't anything completely new. It's just about transferring a concept from the arrangement view over to the session view. It even will be less destructive when you choose not to delete the old clips. You wouldn't want that feature in the arrangement view. But in the session view, it won't hurt to have a few "spare clips" that you just don't have to trigger and still could delete later.

G-Pop
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Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by G-Pop » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:32 pm

JuSchu wrote: Yes, triggering all your clips and trying our new combinations is the big benefit of the session view. Of course, the idea behind this is not to consolidate all the clips in every track so you basically have a whole arrangement in the session view. It's more for the case where you notice that a few clips work well together when you trigger them in a certain order. Or you can practice a longer melody on the keyboard in shorter parts, then record those parts separately and consolidate them to the final clip.
OK! I get it!
You said; "the case where you notice that a few clips work well together..."

It's hard for me to get out of the "Linear Thinking" mode that arrangement view
uses, the most familiar to me, this is my third DAW, and the others didn't have anything
LIKE Session...

Now I'm getting that the consolidated clip doesn't have to destroy the individual
clips they came from b/c they would still be in the 'Current" folder (non-destructive)
This would be extremely sesnsitive to me, because I can make a KABILLION clips!

And I don't want to get rid of anything until MONTHS after a "Final Master." Just in case.
I play 7 guitars, (3 Acoustics, 2 elec. 6str, 1 7str, bass,) Korg N5 Synth, Keybd
midi controller... and I believe in making TONS of tracks and clips and voices/instruments.
any and every idea that hits me over several days to maybe weeks...

"When the dust settles" and I have a song I can bear, getting rid of the "Chaff" is
easy (at least it is in Abletons "Manage Project/files.")

HEY THANKS! I feel kinda stupid like I say but I have years of attempting to put my
songs together in DAWS's that are JUST Arrangement. Gotta think non-linear!
Finally (since I understand it) I'm getting excited about Session!
SHIT! Another learning curve! :roll: :lol:

G Pops
Live10std. Win8x, 8G ram, Scarlette 2i2[1stGen] & ASIO[2ndGen]-KorgN5, M-audio MIDI, various guitarz!
Without skillz, we're all just Monkeys with Shotguns!

wearemindflux
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by wearemindflux » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:42 pm

G-Pop wrote:OK Admittedly I never really use Session view;
I'm not a DJ, so I do everything with Live like an Audio Engineer would

I am somewhat familiar with the concept though, and I THOUGHT that one of
the BIG benefits of Session was that you can have multiples of clips in various
scenes... Anywhere you want them. Any way you want to play them.

BUT, if you select clips "Willy Nilly" and consolidate them to a NEW clip,
(and new sample) wouldn't you potentially cause problems with instances of
pre-consolidated clips? I may be wrong because the consolidated clip shouldn't
be destructive, but I don't know; seems to me you could be chasing your
tail trying to figure out what happened to some of the clips, or, fixing them
in some way.

I am reading more about session view because I see a potential to use it for
multiple versions, say, of an ending, or a lead / break, or drum break / Bridge.

G Pop
You are really missing out. You are not using the DAW to its full potential. The session view is not just for DJ's its for true visionaries and dreamers.

JuSchu
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: Wuppertal (Germany)

Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by JuSchu » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:40 am

G-Pop wrote:this is my third DAW, and the others didn't have anything LIKE Session...
Ableton is my second DAW (as long as I only count those where I wasn't just using a free Version for a few weeks). Before Live I used FL Studio. There you don't have a session view (today it has a VERY basic session view) but at least it's pattern based like a groovebox and you also don't have to think linear. So I'm lucky enough I never got caught in that way of thinking. But I also have the problem that I often get caught in the session view and play around for ages before I start making the arrangement. It's a coin with two sides.
G-Pop wrote:"When the dust settles" and I have a song I can bear, getting rid of the "Chaff" is
easy (at least it is in Abletons "Manage Project/files.")
You might run into a problem there if you're using Live 10. But it's not unsolvable.
Every single time you save a file, Live copies the old file into the Backup folder. Those files are still part of the project, so all the samples that are used in those files are technically still in use even when you don't use them in the current version. So when you ask Live to show you all unused files, those files won't be displayed. To change that you have to delete the files in the Backup folder. At that point your goal is to delete all the old stuff anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem.

G-Pop
Posts: 94
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Re: Consolidate clips in session view

Post by G-Pop » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:29 pm

JuSchu wrote:You might run into a problem there if you're using Live 10. But it's not unsolvable.
Every single time you save a file, Live copies the old file into the Backup folder. Those files are still part of the project, so all the samples that are used in those files are technically still in use even when you don't use them in the current version. So when you ask Live to show you all unused files, those files won't be displayed. To change that you have to delete the files in the Backup folder. At that point your goal is to delete all the old stuff anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Yup I'm on (in?) 10std. And I did notice the handy-dandy backup folder and
have cleaned up a project under it and truthfully, it's worth the extra effort;

The other day I used my "PC Cleanup" app to clean my PC of the "WinGarbage" it
creates (Everything it even remotely questions it makes a file about!)
It's a very powerful, and so, dangerous app... I have to go through each Cleanup
group and SUB group because you can't save preferences unless you get the PRO
version. $$$

SO... it deleted the Reg key for the file association with *.als extensions!
Why??? wth hell do I know??? I know it's still a valid file type and should
NOT have been listed under the "Broken links to file types" idiocy. But I didn't
look for that check box and whammo! GONE!

After a brief moment of panic when I clicked a shortcut to the most recent project
in my shortcuts folder, I re-established the file association and was back to
normal. But I feel better in v10...

I don't mind deleting extra files at all. It's having a day, or weeks worth of work
sucked into the "Lost File Vortex" that scares me. I'm "Tickled Pink" about that
"Backup" folder! I have a daily backup routine for on and off machine work, and now
I can fall asleep and not worry that I've forgotten to do my backups!
(Even though I still do them usually.)

Hey thanks for the suggestions. I am reading the manual and am STILL having trouble
understanding where the clips go and how the scenes work IN TIME through the scenes...
YouTube here I come! I do have a "test Project" open right now!

Musicians are funny people;
When we work, we play, and when we play, it's WORK!!! :wink:

G Pops
Live10std. Win8x, 8G ram, Scarlette 2i2[1stGen] & ASIO[2ndGen]-KorgN5, M-audio MIDI, various guitarz!
Without skillz, we're all just Monkeys with Shotguns!

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