Live 5: Zooming to scrubbing too close for me

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
zekrab
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:25 am
Location: France

Live 5: Zooming to scrubbing too close for me

Post by zekrab » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:36 pm

In the new version 5 you can listen and scrub audio if you click above the waveform in the clip view. You can also do this if you click in the lower half of the waveform. If you want to zoom you click in the upper half of the waveform.

Well, in a live situation if you're too fast and want to zoom the waveform of a clip that is playing, if you pull too much your mouse down you can accidentally scrub the audio and make the clip restart from a new position which could be...Hmmm embarassing.

I woud suggest to keep the scrubbing facility above the waveform and let the whole waveform for zooming.

What do you guys think of it?

I post this here as it is not a bug but a suggestion.

Cheers,
Martial

supster
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:26 am
Location: Orlando FL

Re: Live 5: Zooming to scrubbing too close for me

Post by supster » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:55 am

zekrab wrote:
I woud suggest to keep the scrubbing facility above the waveform and let the whole waveform for zooming.

What do you guys think of it?
i agree, i dont see the need for the redundancy and it lends itself to screwing you badly.

i do think its much easier to hit on the bottom of the waveform, and leave the entire top and under the braces for zooming however.
.
--
NEW SPECS: Athlon 4200+ dual; A8N-SLI m/b; Win XP Home SP2; 1 GB RAM; 2x 7200 RPM HDD: 1 internal, 1 Firewire 800 (Firewire is project data drive); M-Audio Triggerfinger

josh 'vonster' von; tracks and sets
http://www.joshvon.com

zekrab
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:25 am
Location: France

Post by zekrab » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:20 am

yes but don't you think you need a larger zone to zoom than to scrub?
Dell inspiron 9100 P4 3,2Ghz, 512 Mo RAM, XP SP2, Echoindigo dj, Firewire 410, UC33e

trknopnyc
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:10 am

I agree - Really Really bad location.

Post by trknopnyc » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:14 am

I'm very disappointed that a "feature" like this was implemented so poorly. I've almost stopped my testing of version 5 after deciding that having something that can possibly ruin a live tracking/mix session isn't worth the other few features I might use. I was so excited to be able to use the side scrolling feature of my trackpad while only to ruin my mix as i barely missed and "scrubbed" the timeline.

nuperspective
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: was: accrington [england]. now: melbourne [australia]

Post by nuperspective » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:05 am

totally agree its to much of a risk it it happens live. lets not forget the idea is to use live like an instrument. you now have to slow you work flow right down. you should at least be able to turn the feature off.

nuperspective
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: was: accrington [england]. now: melbourne [australia]

Post by nuperspective » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:06 am

heres my 2 cents from another thread:

L5 has some great new features. however, the waveform zooming/ new cursor playback feature sucks. if i'm working live with tracks playing and try to zoom in and miss you set of the edited track from the cursor position. with such a small waveform display its a nightmare! the new loop features are less intuitive as well [although better because of the disconnected start and end points]. being able to jump to the start, end or auto zoom the length was much better. can any of these be switched off?

2kilo
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:25 am
Location: London
Contact:

Post by 2kilo » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:02 pm

must admit I don't have a problem with this...
it means people have to practice, improve their hand and eye co-ordination, learn to play Live... [like learning any instrument?]

yeah, maybe it would be better outside the waveform at the bottom...
[gets hidden at the top behind loop markers etc???]

Angstrom
Posts: 14661
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Post by Angstrom » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:04 pm

I hate this un-intuitive implementation. I have never wanted a 'click anywhere to scub' function - and the only time I have ever used it has been a nasty accident.

The Live 4 method of scrubbing was great you knew that if you clicked on that black arrow then th eplayback would shift around. Right now it's 'hmmm, go on - try for zoom or alter your loop ... just see what happens'
How is that better than one specific visible place which you can drag to scrub (a play marker)

I would prefer either a 'scrub on' toggle button in the clipview , or Livewires suggestion of 'hold shift to scrub'
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 52&#151283


Or even better : the orange dot should be combined with the scrub - so that if you grab the orange dot it has the functionality of the old playhead.

I suppose the current method is designed for the bazillion DJs on this damn planet.

nuperspective
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: was: accrington [england]. now: melbourne [australia]

Post by nuperspective » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:11 pm

nice i like that. holding shift is a decent compromise.

2kilo
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:25 am
Location: London
Contact:

Post by 2kilo » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:18 pm

I found the old scrubing was more of a random mistake...?
Not a true scrub like features. more of jumping play head...?
You could not depend on it to jump cleanly from say bar to bar when performing...?
OK for mashing audio in a random unpredictable manner I guess...?

Boulderdash
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Germany

Post by Boulderdash » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 pm

You have to click in the title bar in all views (arrange, clipenvelope and session) to zoom, only in the clip sample view the title bar means "scrub" and the upper waveform means "zoom". That's inconsistent. I would give such an important function like "zoom" more space than the small title bar.

I fiddled around with the nudge function. It's quite fun, I could get used to it and forget about moving the loopstartpointer like in L4. But these stupid little speaker icon is just everywhere! Please, make the scrub-areas smaller and give more room to zoom. Or, maybe best, put scrub on an alternative key, SHIFT is OK.

bd

PJarrett
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:03 pm

Post by PJarrett » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:26 pm

Add me to the "I don't like this" list.

At the very least, give us the options to turn this on/off.

Like I said in another thread, it seems that Live is becoming much less "live-friendly." it seems to have lost its direction.

serotoninsteve
Posts: 1094
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Re: Live 5: Zooming to scrubbing too close for me

Post by serotoninsteve » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:46 pm

supster wrote:
zekrab wrote:
I woud suggest to keep the scrubbing facility above the waveform and let the whole waveform for zooming.

What do you guys think of it?
i agree, i dont see the need for the redundancy and it lends itself to screwing you badly.

i do think its much easier to hit on the bottom of the waveform, and leave the entire top and under the braces for zooming however.
.
Yes, I agree too!

I´ve never used the scrub function on top of the clip view, it could be eliminated, only in the lower half is enough.

What would be very handy when you are mousing in the lower half with the speaker simbol, that the theoretical scrub pos would be always highlighted in yellow as ex. and when clicked would turn to red flashing and start the scrub.


Greetings
MBP 15,4" 2,53GHz C2D 4Gb late 2008 / Mac OS X.6.2 / Novation Remote 37SL Compact / TriggerFinger / FaderfoxDJ2 / Padkontrol / UC33 / SM Audio TB202 / Audiofire2 / Apogee Duet / Event OPAL's / HD25 /

2kilo
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:25 am
Location: London
Contact:

Post by 2kilo » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:22 pm

"I suppose the current method is designed for the bazillion DJs on this damn planet."

I kinda take offense to this... Dj's practise their performance skills, practice hand, ear and eye co-ordination. Any musican using Live "live" and just hits the next clip on the list is only giving half a performance, especially with the software's potential... I reckon a large number of complaints on the subject are actually the users fault...

It strikes me that:
"you can accidentally scrub the audio" - practice more
"its to much of a risk it it happens live" - practice more
"try to zoom in and miss you set off the edited track" - practice more
"the only time I have ever used it has been a nasty accident" - practice more

There are aspects of the scub function that I've trouble with [things can always be improved], but it's too early to start slamming into the software design, as these problems are most likely my own, I need to practice/learn more...

Martyn
Posts: 2505
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:22 am
Location: UK

Post by Martyn » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:58 pm

2kilo wrote:"I suppose the current method is designed for the bazillion DJs on this damn planet."

I kinda take offense to this... Dj's practise their performance skills, practice hand, ear and eye co-ordination. Any musican using Live "live" and just hits the next clip on the list is only giving half a performance, especially with the software's potential... I reckon a large number of complaints on the subject are actually the users fault...

It strikes me that:
"you can accidentally scrub the audio" - practice more
"its to much of a risk it it happens live" - practice more
"try to zoom in and miss you set off the edited track" - practice more
"the only time I have ever used it has been a nasty accident" - practice more

There are aspects of the scub function that I've trouble with [things can always be improved], but it's too early to start slamming into the software design, as these problems are most likely my own, I need to practice/learn more...
I completely agree, glad to see I'm not the only one that likes these new features. It's really worth taking the time to see what this new scrubbing method can do, you now have total contraol over what part of the waveform to throw in, then hit the revert button and everything drops back where it should. IMHO this is far, far more creative than the instant gratification of bits of random stuttering that were created by moving the playhead about in Live 4. At the end of the day that might sound cool for 5 minutes but it's really just random stuttering, nothing more.

Post Reply