Rack-like Push device

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mercury007
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:15 pm

Rack-like Push device

Post by mercury007 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:25 am

It would be great to have a Ableton Push Rack. Something like the Launch Control XL, but with the following changes:

1- 4 rows of 8 knobs instead of 2
2- Top 2 rows of 8 with endless encoders
3- Ability to switch the use of the each row for a different device (with maxforlive/live and kontrol templates) - for ex, use 8 faders for a mixer, while using the top 4 rows of knobs for specific device control
4- Ability to use top two rows of knobs as a 16-step sequencer (imagine being able to use top two rows for sequencing, next two rows for device control, and faders to still mix/mute/solo 8 channels)
5- Screen backlight the entire device so you can see what you are controlling (with color so you can assign color to things such as osc vs filter to different colors to easily make it feel like a synth)

Is there anything out there like this already? I feel like it would be worth at $1k or maybe more to most of us. Maybe still not enough to justify creating this. It would make all VST synths much more like analog synths. Would love to be able to swap through VSTs and see which knobs I am controlling and easily tell which section is for osc/filter/asdr, etc, while running a step sequencer, for ex.

Anyways posting in case someone else has this dream and/or knows of some place to buy this.

Skullrattler
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Rack-like Push device

Post by Skullrattler » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:04 pm

Yes please. Such a device is much needed but NOT at $1k!

Angstrom
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Re: Rack-like Push device

Post by Angstrom » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:18 pm

I'm still using my ancient BCR2000 because it has 4 rows of 8 encoders with the top row being switchable to 4 different states, 8 x 2 buttons, and a bunch of other assignable buttons.
It doesn't use a wall wart has MIDI in, outs and thru, plus a nice fat USB connection and it cost me about £100 new, and they don't make them any more.

I'd pay £400 for something very similar but more modern, robust, slightly more compact.

I would not pay £1000

sporkles
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Re: Rack-like Push device

Post by sporkles » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:34 pm

I could never get my BCR back up and running after upgrading to Windows 10, and I can't understand why nobody makes things like it anymore.

I kindly asked the Novation team for an endless knob version of their Launch Control XL a couple of years ago, but even though I got the impression they were putting all their top men on the case, I've yet to see any results... ;)

But I really feel like there's a big hole in the market here - everyone wants to twiddle knobs, and endless knobs make so much sense in a DAW context. I recently mentioned here that I wanted a "key" version of Push, but maybe they should go modular?

JuSchu
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Location: Wuppertal (Germany)

Re: Rack-like Push device

Post by JuSchu » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:44 am

mercury007 wrote:3- Ability to switch the use of the each row for a different device (with maxforlive/live and kontrol templates) - for ex, use 8 faders for a mixer, while using the top 4 rows of knobs for specific device control
It's not exactly what you're asking for but recently I programmed something like that for the combination of Push 1 and the Behringer BCR. The key essence here is that we want to control more than one device at once.
Read the video description for details.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoFUR55As9s

btw: I'm studying computer science and design of interactive media and I'm already planning to apply for a job at Ableton at some point in my life. I like your idea and I hope when/if I work at Ableton I get to work with some controller integration or even developing completely new controllers (I'm also into microcontroller programming)
sporkles wrote:I could never get my BCR back up and running after upgrading to Windows 10
Really? I don't have any problems with my BCR and Windows 10. I think I didn't even install any drivers. You selected the correct USB mode in the global setup, right? But in the end, you could still use good old DIN MIDI. You probably still have a working audio interface with MIDI in and out.

Angstrom
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Re: Rack-like Push device

Post by Angstrom » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:50 pm

JuSchu wrote:
sporkles wrote:I could never get my BCR back up and running after upgrading to Windows 10
Really? I don't have any problems with my BCR and Windows 10. I think I didn't even install any drivers. You selected the correct USB mode in the global setup, right? But in the end, you could still use good old DIN MIDI. You probably still have a working audio interface with MIDI in and out.
Yeah, My BCR is currently plugged into a USB hub into a laptop running Win10. The BCR talks to Live via USB. I have some extra MIDI kit plugged into the MIDI in of the BCR and that works fine too. It makes for a handy additional input.
I don't remember installing drivers for it, it all just worked.

mercury007
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Rack-like Push device

Post by mercury007 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:57 am

I had a BCR. Serious problem - you need to create muscle memory. The innovation in what I am saying is the screen. Basically something like a larger iPad with knobs on it. Or perhaps several horizontal strip screens under each row of knobs - and color screens needed.

In this way we can move forward to integrating the modular world into the Live/DAW world.

I am expecting this will be expensive but if someone can figure it out and sell it first as a premium product, over time prices will come down, a new market will be created, and competition will create new varieties at different price points.

What makes modulars and hardware synths fun today is mainly the easy visual interfaces. In the past it was latency and sound-quality. Those are slowly non-issues.

However 8 knobs is not enough to control something like Serum (for ex) in the powerful way that one can control hardware synths. In addition I would propose that different “types” of control for ex doc vs filter section would take on colors. There are a million ways this could become the new modular over time, particularly if we get to the point where you can buy multiple ones and sync them together.

I think this will ultimately be done and will start the next wave of deep analog/software integration.

I would be willing to fund $10k+ for a prototype but have no serious connections in the music world & realistically it seems like something that should be created by the ableton or NI team as to do this properly will require millions of dollars in investment - if the goal is to create a new product category. If anyone has contacts that could push this idea forward - it would be great to know.

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