Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
jonljacobi
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by jonljacobi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:41 pm

It did occur to me, that since they already have a tool (the pencil for drawing), they could add others in a drop down for that icon without straying too far from the status quo or cluttering up things much at all.

I’ve always wondered why the draw tool wouldn’t create clips. That was the first thing I tried with it .

Lokan
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Lokan » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:49 am

I agree that FL is kind of bloated with features, but it also offers well-designed modifiers and good amout of shortcuts so in most cases people don't even need to switch tools.
For cutting notes, I think ctrl+shift click (to cut only one spot) or drag (cut multiple notes) will be handy.
Shift+right click would be a good option too,
Or, maybe we can have a new tool, toggleable like draw tool.

I also agree that draw tool needs improvement. For now, it's quite limited to making snare roll, sequencing trap hi hats, and other repetitive stuffs.
It should be like other DAWs so click to place note and then drag to set its length, and ctrl+shift for current behaviour.
This is gonna help people who sequence a lot of midi notes, reducing amout of clicks,

jonljacobi
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by jonljacobi » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:16 am

If they do it via keystroke, it should probably be the same Ctrl + E that's used to split clips. I think there's a suggestion for that.

Lokan
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Lokan » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:11 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:16 am
If they do it via keystroke, it should probably be the same Ctrl + E that's used to split clips. I think there's a suggestion for that.
But there is no way to select a note partially. Ctrl+E makes sense but it should't be the only option.

jonljacobi
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by jonljacobi » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:26 am

Try it with clips. Same deal. The only drawback would be if you wanted to split one and not another at the same spot.

Lokan
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Lokan » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:35 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:26 am
Try it with clips. Same deal. The only drawback would be if you wanted to split one and not another at the same spot.
You already know what's gonna be the problem. Ctrl+E is not enough

jonljacobi
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by jonljacobi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:09 am

Have you tried shortening and duplicating?

Lokan
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Lokan » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:31 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:09 am
Have you tried shortening and duplicating?
Please stop suggesting workarounds. Although it's been a year and a few months since I switched to Live, I successfully finished some commercial projects and I'm pretty much aware all the features.

If you want to split eight notes, which each lengths is different, you have to do eight precise drags but with a cut tool it's only one precise drag, with Ctrl+E it's much simpler.

But if you want to keep the lowest note intact, it's better to have a dedicated split tool.

Resizing a long note is a quite cumbersome thing, since you have to move around in the piano roll, or zooming in and out. This happens a lot when working with pads or orchestral stuffs
Last edited by Lokan on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Scoox
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Scoox » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:34 am

I also come from FL and I don't necessarily like everything about it's piano roll, though I agree Live would benefit from copying some of FL's piano roll functionality.
pottering wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:29 pm
People are forgetting about MIDI 2.0.
It will bring big changes for MIDI in hardware and software.
So probably any big Live's Piano Roll changes will come only after MIDI 2.0 is released.
Genuine question, what's MIDI 2.0 got to do with all this? Advanced MIDI piano roll editing tools is not a limitation of MIDI at all. I could be wrong but do DAWs even use MIDI internally to trigger plugins? I thought MIDI was only used for triggering outboard gear.

MIDI 2.0 might bring higher resolution and other goodies BUT that's not preventing Live from having a note Split tool.

jonljacobi
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by jonljacobi » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:45 pm

Lokan wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:31 am
jonljacobi wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:09 am
Have you tried shortening and duplicating?
Please stop suggesting workarounds. Although it's been a year and a few months since I switched to Live, I successfully finished some commercial projects and I'm pretty much aware all the features.

If you want to split eight notes, which each lengths is different, you have to do eight precise drags but with a cut tool it's only one precise drag, with Ctrl+E it's much simpler.

But if you want to keep the lowest note intact, it's better to have a dedicated split tool.

Resizing a long note is a quite cumbersome thing, since you have to move around in the piano roll, or zooming in and out. This happens a lot when working with pads or orchestral stuffs
Okay, I won't try to be helpful. Instead, I'll just say that many of us use Ableton Live because it keeps things simple. It minimizes the number of functions and tools in favor of increased user facility with those that exist so you can perform live with it. Yet, you can still do just about anything you want with it. If it's not quite as easy for some obscure operations, such as splitting one long note eight different ways, then it more than makes up for it with the speed of common functions and unencumbered workflow.

I can't speak for Ableton, but I'm assuming that the reason there is only one tool is that they don't want to risk mistakes during live performance. If they ever implement a "non-performance" or "composition/studio" mode or more granular configuration of features, then you might get your wish.

Tau7ty6
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Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Tau7ty6 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:19 am

ohryan wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:58 pm
some features I'd personally like to see:

The 'Play Selected' feature to easily preview all notes in a vertical line on your cursor. This seems so handy for hearing whole chords or even making rhythms by clicking around on the piano roll. Currently you have to drag your cursor over notes and it plays them whenever the drag box hits them so it's not nearly as consistent or useful.

Stamp: adding predefined chords selected from a menu. This would be SO nice for getting quick ideas out there. Also stamping scales would be awesome.

Chop: the ability to easily turn your chords into divisional patterns. Think of how much this would simplify turning chords into plucks or vice versa.

Glide: easy glide notes in the piano roll. how frcking sweat would this be.

Ok, honestly, all the tools from the FL Piano Roll are so cool and it would be incredible if we can have some of these. Not so one can say, Ableton is better or equal than XXX, but just so Ableton can offer its users really cool features.

Thank you again.
Upvote this! We really need - single left click add and single right click or command click to remove feature rather than double clicking. Also having the scales selected on the entire piano roll is a neat idea along with the ability to place one click chords.

Bergtun
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:56 am

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by Bergtun » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:45 pm

+1 on overhauling the Piano Roll. Live is amazing in so many ways, but lagging behind on the Piano Roll.

jonljacobi
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 am

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by jonljacobi » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:26 pm

-1

SewedUp
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:48 am

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by SewedUp » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:51 am

Absolutely. I really really really want to switch to Live completely. But man, the Piano Roll is just unnecessarily convoluted to use. I dont understand how a DAW that has this many cool Features suffers from making a vital Part of a lot of peoples workflow this bad. I mean you can use FL as a rewire slave or as a VST, but that CANT be the solution for this.
Please do this. Please. Please please please :D

drillababy
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:36 am

Re: Upgrade Piano Roll to match FL's for a better User Experience

Post by drillababy » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:38 am

This is so accurate and I could not agree more. Abelton's workflow triumphs any daw in literally every other aspect other than the piano roll which sometimes can halt my production process. Maybe a petition should be presented! Literally!

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