PIANO ROLL PETITION

Share your wishes for the future of Ableton Live
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drillababy
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:36 am

PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by drillababy » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:45 am

https://www.change.org/p/music-producer ... le_started

ABOVE IS A LINK TO SIGN THE PETITION FOR ABLETON TO RELEASE A PIANO ROLL SIMILAR FL STUDIO'S WORKFLOW TO ALLOW US PRODUCERS AND MUSIC CREATORS AND ENHANCEMENT ON WORKFLOW AND CREATIVITY THAT WE DESERVE AND DESIRE! THANK YOU FOR READING THIS! I LOVE LIVE, I HOPE THE BEST DAW WILL TAKE THIS TO INTO ACTION

chapelier fou
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by chapelier fou » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:18 pm

PIANO FLOOR
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by jlgrimes » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:04 pm

drillababy wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:45 am
https://www.change.org/p/music-producer ... le_started

ABOVE IS A LINK TO SIGN THE PETITION FOR ABLETON TO RELEASE A PIANO ROLL SIMILAR FL STUDIO'S WORKFLOW TO ALLOW US PRODUCERS AND MUSIC CREATORS AND ENHANCEMENT ON WORKFLOW AND CREATIVITY THAT WE DESERVE AND DESIRE! THANK YOU FOR READING THIS! I LOVE LIVE, I HOPE THE BEST DAW WILL TAKE THIS TO INTO ACTION

I would prefer that instead of making the piano roll just like FL Studio,

Ableton research all of the good points of all DAWS piano rolls (including it's own, FL Studio, Studio One etc) and implement it in a way to add powerful features aimed at speeding up workflow and making a good user experience yet, keeping it as simple as possible.

Ableton does have areas it needs to improve on, namely:

1. Note cut function in the piano roll.
2. Note divide by grid resolution.
3. Easier way to add tuplets.
4. Non destructive quantize, that updates piano roll notes as notes are quantized (see Logic, Studio one, Reaper).
5. Scale functionality.
6. Chord functionality.
7. Easier step edit function.
8. An insert common pattern function (such as every other note, four on the floor etc)
9. Easier record quantize access (should be non destructive as well)
10. For velocity editing, allow curve functionality.
11. Rolled Chords, Gliss tool.

That would make Ableton miles better but I also think its current piano roll is pretty dope. It just isnt that powerful, but it is very easy to use.

Slobdog
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:59 am

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by Slobdog » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:03 am

Ableton Piano Roll definitely need a scale highlight and easier way to make slides between notes(it's really easy in fl studio)

Soundtrackband
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:16 am

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by Soundtrackband » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:23 am

I don't really know where to start, but this much is true. Ableton's midi editing environment is a straight up blindness-inducing horror show, and I'm livid it wasn't improved AT ALL in the upgrade to 10. Of course there was no way to know this but I figured SOMETHING would be improved! Ableton Live is the strange brew of real competency which draws you in just enough to screw you over when you try to go truly deep on multi-tracked songs.

Spend the rest of your life waiting for Ableton to care about the piano roll. It's good enough for light users, and that's all they care about. No serious in depth user can find it tolerable. The piano roll is not dope, it's TERRIBLE!

jonljacobi
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Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by jonljacobi » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:20 am

deleted

Lokan
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by Lokan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:40 am

One thing I liked in some other software is that I can temporarily switch tools holding a specific key.
e.g Holding "B" key to use brush tool then automatically switching back to the selection tool.

Freiin
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:30 pm

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by Freiin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:32 pm

As a only piano roll composer, i agree.

This would change the game.


But i have read something about midi 2.0 and someone said it doesn't makes sense Ableton improve piano roll with no midi 2.0

But i don't know. Lets wait.

hoffman2k
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Location: Belgium
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Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by hoffman2k » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:06 pm

Freiin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:32 pm
But i have read something about midi 2.0 and someone said it doesn't makes sense Ableton improve piano roll with no midi 2.0
The vote on the final spec is tomorrow!
https://sonicstate.com/news/2020/01/18/ ... s-midi-20/

jlgrimes
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:25 am

Soundtrackband wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:23 am
I don't really know where to start, but this much is true. Ableton's midi editing environment is a straight up blindness-inducing horror show, and I'm livid it wasn't improved AT ALL in the upgrade to 10. Of course there was no way to know this but I figured SOMETHING would be improved! Ableton Live is the strange brew of real competency which draws you in just enough to screw you over when you try to go truly deep on multi-tracked songs.

Spend the rest of your life waiting for Ableton to care about the piano roll. It's good enough for light users, and that's all they care about. No serious in depth user can find it tolerable. The piano roll is not dope, it's TERRIBLE!
They gave us

1. Multiclip edit
2. Envelope shapes
3. Ability to type in values for envelopes



That said though they should do more.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:34 am

drillababy wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:45 am
https://www.change.org/p/music-producer ... le_started

ABOVE IS A LINK TO SIGN THE PETITION FOR ABLETON TO RELEASE A PIANO ROLL SIMILAR FL STUDIO'S WORKFLOW TO ALLOW US PRODUCERS AND MUSIC CREATORS AND ENHANCEMENT ON WORKFLOW AND CREATIVITY THAT WE DESERVE AND DESIRE! THANK YOU FOR READING THIS! I LOVE LIVE, I HOPE THE BEST DAW WILL TAKE THIS TO INTO ACTION
You might not know this, but some folks developed an extension to Ableton called "Live Essentials Suite".

Part of its goal was to add some FL Studio like features to the piano roll.

Some of the features.

1. Single click to input notes
2. Scale tool
3. Chord tool
4. Buplicate (duplicate event 8 times)
5. Switch between envelope mode and piano roll with key command.


It isnt perfect but it is free and pretty non-intrusive. I wonder why it isnt mentioned much on this forum but it is pretty popular on the Live YouTube tutorials.

Soundtrackband
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:16 am

Re: PIANO ROLL PETITION

Post by Soundtrackband » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:13 am

Live Essentials Suite? That sounds like one of their main products. I'll look for it though, thanks.

One thing that bugs me but may be my own fault, is the lack of labelling on the piano roll. It seems like the notes should interface with the VST to autodisplay what the note lanes correspond to. Staring at a sea of black and white on the left is doing me no good whatsoever. Seems like custom color coding is a no brainer here.

The switch between every note and only the notes used is not adequate either. Seems like a two octave range as a choice would make the most sense, including notes used and unused but available. I don't need a six octave range, except for keyboard tracks.

The velocities being piled on top of one another is a pain, to the point of duplicating the plug in, which starts sucking resources. The midi detection is ok, but could be better. It doesn't work at all for cymbals really. That's not a piano roll issue per se. I understand I have to go in there and edit it, but that's where the zooming in, out and the note lengths and velocities turn things into a nightmare.

Also, this may be my fault, but I really wish there were multiple options for tracking and following the cursor. Finally, getting play to happen in the midi editor is very odd, leaving a narrow vertical lane to find the speaker icon to get the play to work. The interplay between the midi editor and the session view is far from optimal.

Not sure what else, but the much ballyhooed midi detection is now a thing across many DAWs I believe, and detection is one thing that should be improved on the regular, particularly velocities. The editing afterwards leaves much to be desired to the point of going elsewhere, which, of course, is not easy. I actually like Ableton's effects, faders and session view better than FL,. but I suppose it's what I'm used to.

Also, Ableton by default is now snap to grid, which I didn't ask for, and can't seem to shut off by default. Plus, I now how to split at the cursor to cut and paste though something else in editing seems to have improved, but I'm talking audio tracks, not midi. Whatever, I guess we'll get there. I don't need a new synth from my DAW, I need improved functionality.

THe one thing FL does right is the two-layered manipulation of samples. Once you cut the sample, you can then say how many times you want it to repeat. This can be done in cut and paste, and someone prob has a template of something that will do this, but it would be nice if it were more apparent, or a function inside of simpler, since that seems to be the fastest way for improv sampling on the fly from longer recorded sample files (I hate cutting samples, and other programs do this easier, as well, which is really odd, since Ableton is one of the best sample players around, but not the best cutter).

Oddly enough, I remember old OS 9 software, audiofusion, that did a better job of quick chopping and laying out samples into a song than anything I've used since. It's not that hard in Ableton for stereo tracks, but this should be doable across a multi-track recording, since no one who wants later control of the mix records a live session with real players to stereo anymore. Dragging the selector across eight plus tracks a time in Ableton and then laying it out is not fun. Once you select your in and out points, and it's looping perfectly, you should be able to export that whole shebang to a new window which then gives you the option to repeat it X number of times. Then you go back to the original recording, and pick your next loop and it goes to that new window/file, etc. Then you autoroll the break between the loops, and repeat, hopefully with the previous selection available to drop in. THAT would be useability.

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